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VO
Welcome to Dig In, the podcast brought to you by Dig Insights. Each week Jess Gaedeke chats with world class brand professionals to bring you the story behind the story of some of the most breakthrough innovations, marketing tactics, and campaigns.

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Jess
Welcome everybody to the Dig In podcast. I'm Jess Gaedeke, and today, get ready to learn from one of the brightest minds at the intersection of innovation and creativity and commerce. He's award winning. He's forward looking. And most importantly, he's crazy genuine. I'm so lucky to be joined today by David Isaac, VP of Creative Production at Chobani. David, thanks for being here.

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David
Hey, my pleasure. Thanks for having me, Jess.

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Jess
I'd love to start by having you tell us about a little bit about your background.

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David
Sure thing. So I've been working in the kind of creative production space for about 15 years. Started my career in Toronto, where I had the opportunity to work with just some really brilliant Canadian minds, on some really amazing, brands. Did that for a while, and then I jumped over to Amsterdam. Had a really fun opportunity open up there.

00;01;10;28 - 00;01;33;10
David
And I kind of ran some global accounts for another great agency there Sid Lee. Where I kind of ran, you know, global production for brands like Absolut Vodka, and then an opportunity popped up in New York, and I'm like, what the hell? I may as well just do a full kind of 360 loop back around, kind of a boomerang.

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David
Came back to the East Coast and I've been here ever since. Been here for ten years. Also kind of worked on a lot of global initiatives, always kind of working, like you said, at the intersection of, like, commerce, creativity and innovation. So I'm really passionate about that kind of stuff. And, you know, started working on, different brands and eventually, about six years ago, made my way over to Chobani.

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David
I've been there ever since, so actually, last week was my six year anniversary there. So it's been going well, and every year is a new challenge. So yeah.

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Jess
Very cool. Well you’ve worked on some great brands and some great parts of the world, and we're going to get into some of that experience here in just a second. Okay. Well, I'm going to get things going here with just an impromptu question. So David, tell me what superhero would you most want to be?

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David
That's a great question. And I think I don't know if there's a superhero specifically that has this superpower. I'm not huge in, like, all the Marvel comics and everything like that, but, you know, my mind's always curious about innovation. What's coming up next? So, you know, I'm always wondering, what's the next thing? What's coming up?

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David
What's going to happen in this industry, or what's AI going to do to the world? And how is that going to impact everybody and all that kind of stuff. So if there's a, if I could be a superhero, have a superpower, it would be, seeing what's around the corner, seeing what's coming in the future.

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David

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Jess
That’s a good one, that would be super useful in your industry.

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David
Yeah. So a crystal, crystal ball. Just a crystal ball.

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Jess
Not a lot to ask. Yeah.

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David
Yeah, I think it's pretty, pretty straightforward if you know how, how I can, where I can find that, let me know.

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Jess
I'll be sure to give you any tips I got. Okay. Well, let's dig in. As you know, our listeners crave inspiration from other leaders. And I think one of the best ways to inspire is to tell a story. And you were integral in development of a truly breakthrough packaging innovation for Chobani. This was the Chobani Flip Halloween seasonal packs that have a really cool augmented reality experience.

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Jess
So I'd love for you to tell us that story. How did that idea originate? What inspired it?

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David
Yeah, it was really great. It's something we've never done on packaging, at Chobani, but we've always thought about, you know, we've always wanted to find a way to surprise and delight, you know, our consumer and just give them something that's just going to extend our brand experience, and in new, interesting ways. We're also looking for ways to stand out, kind of in a, on a shelf that's just, you know, packed with options.

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David
You know, it's really cluttered. It's really, there's a lot of, you know, a lot to choose from, a lot to look at. And a lot of times it just looks the same. So any opportunity we get to kind of disrupt the shelf, bring something interesting to the shelf, especially in a moment where we have, you know, maybe lower seasonality on certain SKUs is a welcome opportunity.

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David
So, you know, we've always, looked at AR as a piece of technology, that we could potentially, you know, experiment with. We've tested it a bunch of times. but it never it was never practical in a sense where the technology wasn't accessible enough to just be something that everybody can access and enjoy, really easily.

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David
So, you know, every year we see the technology advance a little bit. And, you know, the last time so last year when we we started looking into it again, we realized that we can actually, have an AR experience without having a native app, that would, you know, allow that would force somebody to download something in order to engage with the experience.

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David
And then we're like all these ideas that we had our creative team, our design team, our digital team, just came flooding back. And everybody's like, hey, we've got all these great ideas on how we can essentially extend the packaging into a digital space right off packaging and, you know, you can do it right through your browser. So, that technology enabled us to kind of unlock this, this opportunity, and do it in a way that, you know, I think really surprised and delighted our consumer, really kind of brought something fresh and new to the shelf.

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David
And from a, you know, from a CPG perspective, it really got our retailers excited about something new. You know, around the Halloween time frame,

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Jess
What types of experiences were consumers able to have with that AR component?

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David
So we, we kept it pretty, pretty simple actually. And we, after testing it a lot, we realized that actually a simpler gaming mechanic is probably going to be more successful. But we tried to recreate the the trick or treat experience virtually. So, when you scan the QR code off of this Halloween themed packaging, these doors kind of appeared in your space, and you, you could knock on them to reveal either, you know, either like a spooky, like, trick or reveal a treat, which would be the product.

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David
And at the end of the experience, you collected points. And then we actually were able to, to mail you a treat, which, you know, was there was a wide range of, like, gifts. Essentially, we could send people swag or, you know, free product or things of that nature. So everybody who played got something out of it, whether it was a small souvenir or a keepsake.

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David
But, the idea was to kind of bring the family together around this, you know, this consumption occasion, and give them something fun to do at the, breakfast table or dinner table or whatever. Whatever table you’re snacking on.

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Jess
Whatever table you're having your Chobani, yeah, I love that. It's so playful. It's so experiential and I also really appreciate that it's grounded in that need to break through its shelf, which is such a sea and so difficult to navigate. And the fact that you're bringing a retailer some new news that we, as we know, is so important, for CPG in particular.

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Jess
So did you leverage any new ways of thinking as you develop this particular packaging innovation? It had to be a lot to coordinate to get things together.

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David
Yeah, definitely. I think, just looking at timelines for packaging and releasing packaging. we have an amazing team in-house that kind of oversees all the packaging and the design and the artwork. It's all done in-house. They're an incredible team. but the timelines that they have to work on are very different than, say, a digital timeline. So, you know, something that, you know, only our team really knows is that we put a QR code on the packaging, before we knew exactly like the digital experience.

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David
Like what exactly that would entail, you know, because they were kind of running on two different workstreams. And it was the first time we were doing this as well. So we had a bunch of ideas for what how this would extend digitally, but was definitely still a work in progress when that packaging went out with the QR code.

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David
When it went to print, you know, so, you kind of have to, sometimes, you know, build the thing and fly it at the same time. And that's hard to do that. Yeah.

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Jess
Yeah, yeah. This idea of concurrent work streams, I'm sure there was a lot of stress around, oh my gosh, is it going to be ready in time because this stuff's hitting the shelves and we better be digitally prepared. Right. So did you have any barriers or sort of hiccups along the way? Did you have to pivot at any point?

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David
Yeah, definitely. I think there was you know, I think a big one is, you know, when, when, our packaging is released or, you know, it goes into this long process, and then eventually it's ready and it goes to the plants. And then they shipped the product. So first ship typically, typically it takes like a few weeks for, you know, most retailers to have that package on shelf.

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David
But it doesn't mean that some retailers might get lucky and get it like a few days later, potentially more like a week later. So you definitely have to be ready with your full campaign and experience, right? When the product leaves the plant. And that's something we realized a little bit later in the game. And, yeah, we have to really just make sure everything was tested, ready to go.

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David
And yeah, problem solved to make sure that everything was top notch for that first ship date.

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Jess
Yeah. And I was just still struck by you're talking about an actual holiday that has a date on the calendar that you had to hit, so there wasn't a lot of flexibility there. How did you know it was a success? What sort of results did you guys see from this?

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David
Yeah, definitely. I think there was a lot of great metrics coming out of it. This is the first time we've done it. So again, we are approaching it from like a test and learn perspective. And we learned a lot about our consumers. We learned a lot about engagement. So you know, we found that on average, you know, people were spending over two minutes playing this game, which is

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Jess
Oh wow!

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David
pretty huge for an AR experience.

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Jess
That’s a decent amount of time.

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David
Yeah, that was really great. So people people were really spending time kind of enjoying it. and we also saw an impact on even, you know, sales and volume. So there was, there was a lift, during that time of year and then the seasonality, you know, we captured a lot of, you know, data and emails and we, you know, we boosted our CRM list.

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David
So there's a lot of wins and a lot that, you know, we'll optimize for, and if we decide to do this again, you know, I'm not going to promise anything, but, you know, we are talking about it. And it felt like a real successful, you know, first attempt at kind of AR and packaging.

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Jess
What was your biggest takeaway from that experience?

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David
I think, you know, the biggest takeaway is, you know, if you're not willing to like, do something, to be the first to do something or try something for the first time without, necessarily data that that's going to back up the decision. You're never really going to innovate. So, you know, when we were when we were looking at this and we were trying to build KPIs and success metrics for this, you know, we don't really have a precedent for it.

00;12;18;10 - 00;12;38;10
David
We didn't have something to point at to say, look, this needs to do these exact things and meet these exact, you know, success metrics for this to be deemed successful because we'd never done it before. And, you know, it was hard to kind of point out anyone else, that had done it the way we wanted to do it.

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David
So we just kind of went in with as long as we can surprise and delight our consumers and, you know, extend the brand in a meaningful way and learn, then we're good. And what we ended up getting out of it was a lot more than that. But ultimately, I think you need to build a culture that's open to truly innovating and testing and learning and not, you know, having to, not, you know, mandating, I guess, a precedent for something because then you'll never be the first to try something.

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Jess
Yeah. That's really interesting. And I'm struck by you've used the term surprise and delight several times in how you've described this initiative. And I think that's a great kind of segue into talking about you as a leader in your organization, in the industry. Because one of the things that I know you're really passionate about, we spent some time chatting about, is this concept of authenticity when it comes to leading a brand, and a company.

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Jess
And I think that I'd love to hear more about how that plays out in your day to day at Chobani. How do you live the brand? How do you develop that authenticity with your consumers, but also your employees? What's it like over there, and how do you guys do it so well?

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David
Yeah, I think, you know, I think authenticity is key. And it comes all the way from, you know, leadership at the very, very top from our founder. authenticity is really about, you know, bringing in the right people and empowering them and listening to them because ultimately we're all, you know, everybody who works at Chobani makes up the voice of Chobani.

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David
You know, if we want to be authentic to the world, then we need to really allow, you know, the sum of its parts to, you know, express themselves. Also having, you know, investing in a culture that's, that's, you know, encourages again, this test and learn mindset that's not built on, on fear, you know, I think really allows people to express themselves more freely.

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David
And you're going to get a much more authentic voice from doing that.

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Jess
And so does that freedom to sort of experiment sounds like it's okay to maybe have some failures or some setbacks along the way? Does that come from the top? Is that something that's just very, collectively at the senior level, supported for the organization?

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David
Yeah, definitely. I think, again, I think we give a lot of responsibility to everybody. We empower everybody. We also expect results from everybody. But I think it's, I think there's definitely this openness to doing things our way, doing things differently and not doing things just because, you know, a competitor has done them a certain way or, you know, there's a precedent that, you know, the Chobani way is, is a term that's used on a daily basis

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David
inside the walls. You know, like there's a very there's like a way of thinking, a way of approaching a problem and this belief that we can solve problems, you know, quicker, more efficiently, more practically, than others.

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Jess
You must be able to recruit some great talent as part of that just initial conversation and telling them about the company. People must get so excited to work for Chobani.

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David
Yeah, I think a lot of people get excited about it. But you also find a lot of people who've been at the company for a very long time as well. So recruitment is a big thing, but retention is also really amazing. You know, I've never been at a company where, you know, I've been there for six years and the person next to me is like, yeah, well I've been here 11 and I'm like, oh, okay, you win.

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David
So yeah, there's a lot of people who've been here a long time. They, you know, we kind of we’re foodies, but we're also, I think, we're attracted to trying to make the world a better place and disrupting kind of the food space. We believe in the mission of better food for more people.

00;16;52;05 - 00;17;09;05
David
And we really want to try to make a difference out there. You know, we love food, and we want everybody to have access to amazing food. So I think it's a pretty it's a pretty great mission that you can get behind and feel like you're making a difference every day.

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Jess
Yeah. So along those lines, what's your hot take on the future of the food industry?

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David
Yeah. So I think the future of the food industry is really about I think no compromise. I think it's, it's one of those things where I think, you know when, when we're growing up, our parents, you're always having to either choose a healthy food item or like a delicious food item. And I think the future of the food industry is, hey, you can have both.

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David
And you can create products that are both delicious and nutritious and good for you. And you don't have to be, you know, on, on one side or the other. And I think Chobani is like sitting right in that, in that perfect kind of middle ground and has been for a while, has been kind of saying this for a long time and a lot.

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David
And you see that with a lot of like the new startups, I think, who are trying to do things differently and disrupt their own, in their own ways, disrupt different categories. Again, it's like, you know what? You could still have that delicious, you know, candy bar, but it's actually kind of healthier now for you, you know what I mean?

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David
Or it's it's walking that fine, that line, between delicious and nutritious. And you can have both. Why not?

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Jess
Yeah. Enabling, consumers to not have to compromise is a pretty powerful thing that a brand can do. So I love that as a hot take. Well, let's get into the final dig. This is all about you as, as a consumer. So feel free to take off your professional hat if you wish for a moment. What is the last product or service that you bought on impulse?

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David
The last product I bought on impulse. Well, the last thing I bought on impulse was actually at a book fair. I bought this poster of all these, retro signs in my neighborhood in the Lower East Side in New York, which I was like, hey, I see these everywhere. But somebody kind of went around and kind of photographed them, illustrated them.

00;19;11;19 - 00;19;32;18
David
And I have this poster now that I plan on framing, putting up on my wall. and then in terms of, yeah, last thing I bought on impulse, would have to be, a, Trader Joe's, these, vegan, ice cream sandwiches.

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Jess
Oh, how did they turn out?

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David
Pretty good. Yeah, yeah, I'm into it. I'm always trying something new. at TJ's. Yeah, I'm one of those.

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Jess
And they're great for that, right? I mean, yeah, we should do a little data cut of that question and see how many of our impulse purchases have been at Trader Joe's, because they're great for that. Well, and I'm glad you didn’t have to compromise taste over the health with those vegan, ice cream sandwiches. What's a category or brand, that you could rationalize any price point for?

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Jess
You just have to have it in your life.

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David
I'm so lucky to live in a city like New York, where I have access to art all around me. There's inspiration all around me. but to me, I need my weekly dose of just, you know, art and creativity and, you know, you can't put a price tag on that because I think it keeps us, keeps me driven and fueled to kind of want to, you know, make better work.

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Jess
That's refreshing. And, I'm sure you're looking for constant inspiration in your role, so that makes a lot of sense. Brands have distinct personalities, as we know. So what's a brand that you would love to date and a brand you'd love to marry? And they don't have to be the same brand.

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David
Well, I'm kind of I think I'm, I'm kind of married to Chobani at the moment. Yeah. But, you know, a brand that, is just seems like a real fun time right now is Liquid Death. And I think, you know, they just seem like, they would be a blast. Like, they just, they're just having fun.

00;21;03;07 - 00;21;21;15
David
They have a great mission. They, they're breaking the mold in the category, like, you know, even today, their Earth Day post was a spoof on, you know, single use plastics is pretty smart. So, yeah, I think that would be a great fit.

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Jess
I’m going to check that out. Yeah. I always think about, like, the original pitch of that, that product in that concept. Like I got an idea and it's called Liquid Death. Must have been so funny in the early days. Awesome. Well, what keeps you inspired at work, David?

00;21;37;27 - 00;22;11;12
David
You know, honestly, I think inspiration for me, you know, I don't look at, I don't look at, like, a lot of what's happening in the industry, per se. I keep track of, you know, other campaigns and other work, but I find the best inspiration for me comes from, again, going to little art galleries or spending time in nature and kind of disconnecting a little bit, you know, disconnecting from, the day to day and letting my mind wander and be curious and then coming back just, like recharged, you know?

00;22;11;12 - 00;22;19;10
David
So you got to recharge, I think, your batteries by not being plugged in all the time, you know.

00;22;19;13 - 00;22;27;09
Jess
Yeah, that's great advice. And we so appreciate your perspective today. Thanks so much for joining me for this conversation.

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David
My pleasure. Thank you.

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Jess
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