00;00;03;00 - 00;00;17;23
VO
Welcome to Dig In, the podcast brought to you by Dig Insights. Each week Jess Gaedeke chats with world class brand professionals to bring you the story behind the story of some of the most breakthrough innovations, marketing tactics, and campaigns.

00;00;17;25 - 00;00;37;01
Jess
Hi everybody. Welcome to the Dig In podcast. I'm Jess Gaedeke, and I'm all hyped up for today's conversation because I really love this brand and I'm really inspired by this leader. Today I'm joined by Katie Marston, CMO at Once Upon a Farm. We're going to hear a lot about this company and its background, but I love the company description.

00;00;37;01 - 00;00;43;07
Jess
The next generation childhood nutrition company. It says a lot. So Katie, thanks so much for being here.

00;00;43;10 - 00;00;53;11
Katie
Jess, I am equally excited to be here today. We have a lot in common. We both love insights and data and really digging into fun topics and denim.

00;00;53;13 - 00;00;54;27
Jess
That's another shared love.

00;00;54;28 - 00;01;01;12
Katie
That is something we shared earlier today. Denim, denim. Just a lot of denim.

00;01;01;15 - 00;01;15;19
Jess
I love it. Okay Katie. So to get us going I'm just going to throw an impromptu question your way. What's one celebrity where if you met them in real life, you would just, like, lose your mind? You would fan girl out.

00;01;15;22 - 00;01;58;03
Katie
You know, I think we've all been watching the Olympics and have been absolutely so inspired by the personal stories that have been highlighted through there. I have to say, Ilona Maher, the women's rugby absolute like lead. Just her message throughout the entire games. Following her on social, body positivity, just authentically sharing her story with humor, and getting so many more eyes on her sport like she is one that would just be fantastic to meet and just celebrate her success with.

00;01;58;06 - 00;02;05;05
Jess
So let's turn it to you for an introduction. Tell us about your background and your current role at Once Upon a Farm.

00;02;05;07 - 00;02;38;17
Katie
I have to start out by saying, I am forever grateful that John Foraker took a chance on a very nontraditional CPG marketer for this role. I actually started at Adidas for 12 years, both internationally, you know, in their interim office and their headquarters in Germany, as well as stateside in Portland and San Diego, working across all facets of marketing and sales and innovation.

00;02;38;20 - 00;03;07;22
Katie
Before switching over to my own company, where I helped develop personal brands for athletes, professional athletes and military veterans to set them up for, you know, their second careers that happened in their 30s for many of them. And I missed brand. I just I missed being, you know, within a brand and team. And that's where I really caught the bug for smaller to mid-size, high growth,

00;03;08;08 - 00;03;32;04
Katie
had some sort of a challenge. I got to work with, you know, Kendra Scott jewelry company for multiple years. And then my first food and beverage with Brew Dr. Kombucha. And it was a conversation I was only supposed to help John to find, you know, his next head of marketing. And we got on a call, and he's such an icon.

00;03;32;04 - 00;03;52;16
Katie
And if you don't know him, please look him up. There's no one more humble. What he's done at Annie's is incredible. He's got such great insights on LinkedIn. Well worth the follow. But we had the conversation for an hour and a half, and after that, I said we did this little dance of like, well, you know, are you interested?

00;03;52;16 - 00;04;08;02
Katie
And I'm sitting there being like, I mean, would you consider. And I came home and was like, I am very interested in this role but I did not, you know, did not -- it's been the best job, the best mission driven company experience I've ever had.

00;04;08;04 - 00;04;24;19
Jess
Yeah. That is so cool. And I don't think I told you this, but I have a really similar story about joining Dig. So the the CEO, Paul Gaudette, had reached out and just was networking. He's like, we're looking to to you know, hire for this role. It's a new role for the company. Chief Revenue Officer you know you've done that before.

00;04;24;19 - 00;04;40;02
Jess
Talk to me about what you’ve seen and what you think works. And we were just having a natural conversation over a number of weeks. And then over time I'm like, wait, am I like interviewing for this job? Because this one's really cool. I really like this company. And it was almost like when you're like, you know, really good friends with someone.

00;04;40;02 - 00;04;55;29
Jess
And then after a while you're like, wait, are we dating now? Like, what's going on? So yeah, it's a fun way to enter that relationship, though, because you're so yourself. Right. You didn't go into that interviewing. You went into it as a comrade and consulting around you know what would make sense for the role?

00;04;56;02 - 00;05;02;19
Katie
Completely. I mean, I couldn't have jumped into marriage fast enough with this brand for sure.

00;05;02;22 - 00;05;22;02
Jess
We're going to kind of dig in here. You know, our listeners crave inspiration from leaders and hearing stories, I think is one of the best ways to inspire. So one of the most exciting recent innovations and launches at Once Upon a Farm were this Refrigerated Bars product. And, you know, among many successes, made quite a splash at Target.

00;05;22;02 - 00;05;29;19
Jess
So first kind of give us the pitch, give us the pitch of who Once Upon a Farm is and why this innovation is particularly exciting for the market.

00;05;29;19 - 00;05;58;20
Katie
Yeah. As you mentioned, you know, we are the next generation organic children's nutrition company. Everything from babies to big kids and beyond what we're known for and spent the first seven years of the company really focusing our organic, cold pressed fruit and veggie blends with unique ingredients and natural functionality. And every book you read, right, is focused on the core, focus on the core, and that is how you grow your business.

00;05;58;20 - 00;06;31;02
Katie
Don't get distracted, and I wholeheartedly believe in that. You also want to listen to your consumers and know when the right time is to expand. Outside of that, we both love data. We have done a lot of research, parents were asking for, and they kept asking us for a multitude of products. But bars came up time and time again, and it got to the point where we knew we wanted to launch something outside of our well known pouch. Bars was the likely area, but we knew we had to do it in a Once Upon a Farm way, right?

00;06;31;02 - 00;06;56;05
Katie
Organic. Non-GMO, no preservatives, fruits and veggies. No added sugar which is near impossible. And to find within the bar aisle, without sacrificing taste. And you've got an older discerning, you know, consumer end user here that even if it's healthy, like if it doesn't taste good, the parent might buy it once, but the kid’s never going to eat it again.

00;06;56;05 - 00;07;15;09
Katie
So we had this brief and this big opportunity to tackle. And once we decided we were going to do it, we went full fledged into making sure that we made the best bar possible without the handcuffs of a timeline.

00;07;15;11 - 00;07;20;29
Jess
That's important. So what did that mean? If you didn't have those handcuffs, what did that give you the freedom to do?

00;07;21;01 - 00;07;44;06
Katie
It gave us the freedom to make sure that we invested in research at every step of the way. And that includes, you know, line trials, as you know, bench top is definitely different from when you're producing at scale, and that can change tastes. We had a bunch of concepts that we actually took to kids and did a whole project, and some of them were better than others.

00;07;44;09 - 00;08;05;13
Katie
But this overnight oats bar stood out for taste, which was great. Like, we knew we had taste and we could have honestly stopped there. And I think there were conversations of, okay, like, this is the type of product we're very close that that we could launch this, but it was missing when we looked at the competition. It was missing the fun.

00;08;05;13 - 00;08;25;07
Katie
Like if we consider ourselves parents ally, what does that mean? That means the kid is choosing us. The parent is enforcing it on them. And it still has the nutrients because it has the taste and the playfulness. And so we needed a drizzle. Like, I know that sounds so silly, but you look in the bar aisle, just as a fun it signals like, you know, a little bit of a treat.

00;08;25;09 - 00;08;57;01
Katie
And how are we going to do this with no added sugar? Like it was a very aspirational goal. And there were times along the way that I think a few of us would have thrown in the towel. And I'll say, you know, Cassandra Curtis, and Nicole McNeil, who had a brand for me. And then, Cassandra, our chief innovation officer, the magician in the kitchen who started this company, were like, we are not compromising on our guardrails.

00;08;57;01 - 00;09;16;06
Katie
Like, we can figure this out. We will do this. Like, this is what the kid needs. That's what the parent needs. Like this is what our guardrails are. We're not going to compromise. And Cassandra always says find a way to make one. We really base our company and our founder mentality on that. And to their credit, they did.

00;09;16;06 - 00;09;38;27
Katie
And I am so, so glad because that was industry defining. It showed the retailers it could be done. It was something that Target absolutely loved. They were our lead, you know, launch partner out of the gates. And I knew it was a win when my own kids liked the difference to a bar without and a bar with, chose the bar with every single time.

00;09;38;29 - 00;09;40;25
Katie
And came back asking for more.

00;09;40;28 - 00;10;00;21
Jess
Yeah. I love that phrase that you used. Find a way or make one I think is similar to what you said. I love that it's so inspiring. And I think that, you know, you talked about the role of data and research as part of this, this launch as well. Talk more about that. Like where do you, you know, build some of the confidence to make the decisions that you made.

00;10;00;21 - 00;10;03;09
Jess
Talk more about the role of research within that.

00;10;03;11 - 00;10;27;20
Katie
We look at research everything from trend research in the beginning, Once Upon a Farm spends more and invests more. I don't even like the term spend. Invest more because there's a payout, there's a huge value at the end. And it definitely, in my mind, makes you faster. Invest more in research than brands I've worked with that are of a larger size.

00;10;27;20 - 00;10;52;11
Katie
And so everything from what's happening in the marketplace, understanding trends like refrigerated bars. Right. We could have gone, most bars were shelf stable. Freshness mattered to us. We saw the huge growth happening in the refrigerated, you know, bar section. Perfect snacks, perfect bar had been you know, I have such respect for them. What they went and did is is kind of groundbreaking for the industry.

00;10;52;13 - 00;11;15;16
Katie
We saw a complementary opportunity there. Then it was how do we work with kids? How do we listen to parents? Okay, now we you know, make the bar. That's then internal testing. And, you know, on different types of production methods. And then going back out and making sure including how we talk about it, this is our first step.

00;11;15;16 - 00;11;44;26
Katie
So I appreciate including, you know, marketing taglines and call outs for the packaging. You know, what matters? Where is the preference ranking, the value rankings. So, you know, you've only got so much space. We had less space on the bar packaging than on our pouch packaging. So we had to think about what was the most important things for us as a brand, but also in that competitive space.

00;11;44;26 - 00;12;11;13
Katie
And we had to be very selective and that’s where no added sugar for us was such a huge identifier that came through from research, that then we knew we needed to put on the packaging. And I do think just like it doesn't stop there from a research perspective like you've launched, that's the hardest part. But there's optimization that can be done to make the most of the hard work that you have already put in.

00;12;11;15 - 00;12;27;14
Katie
And so that is the follow up. If the repeat isn't as high as you want, if the incrementality isn't as high as you want, how are you digging in to then make the necessary action steps to be even better in future iterations to meet more consumer and retailer needs.

00;12;27;16 - 00;12;46;17
Jess
Yeah, I love that because the journey begins at launch, right? That's actually when it begins. And so, we hear a lot from brand leaders about how those early days, you know, you're kind of losing sleep. Is it going to have the velocity in the terms that we need? And, and you're laughing because you probably did have some sleepless nights.

00;12;46;21 - 00;12;58;28
Jess
So talk to us a little bit about that. Like, what's the pressure like a post launch and what, how do you kind of keep that feedback loop, not just with consumer understanding, but also your retailers and keeping those conversations fresh?

00;12;59;00 - 00;13;41;01
Katie
We had a great like launch event plan, you know in New York that the team pulled off like there were so many things about this whole launch that I really actually did lose sleep over because I, John and I had a great debate and didn't necessarily agree on this product being the right one. The first one was the opportunity big enough, and I felt like I joked, I'm like, well, if this doesn't work, like I'll find a new job, but it it launched and I, I think that's where it's the full team effort of everybody giving everything to make this a success.

00;13;41;04 - 00;14;07;12
Katie
Velocities out of the gates were beyond and we had high expectations, were beyond expectations. For me, it was repeat. So we were hovering between 30 and 35. That meant the consumer was coming back, which was huge. When you look across like the competition and and what's going on, we were right there, at the top, which, you know, said and spoke volumes.

00;14;07;12 - 00;14;40;28
Katie
The other is and I hit on this incremental reality. So we knew we were bringing new consumers into the brand. But the dollar growth incrementality for the category that we brought in was about 40%. So talk about a phenomenal selling story that that has allowed, right? Our sales team to then take that and go out and say, hey, this is why you want to take a chance on Once Upon a Farm in a new space of your store or a new format.

00;14;41;00 - 00;14;48;13
Jess
Yeah. I mean, being in this industry for as long as we have category growth is the unicorn right? Like it is

00;14;48;13 - 00;14;49;07
Jess
so

00;14;49;07 - 00;15;12;05
Jess
hard to do because not only do you have to do all the things that are involved, the traditional innovation, but you also have to educate an entire new group of consumers to go to a different part of the store and consider something that has not been part of their basket historically. It's huge, and 40% is incredible. Is that how you're measuring success of this launch?

00;15;12;05 - 00;15;16;29
Jess
Like, what is your milestone to say this checks the box for our organization.

00;15;17;01 - 00;15;48;24
Katie
First and foremost is consumer. We are consumer first. So it was how is this making a parent's life easier. How happy are the kids. Are they choosing us again. So like that was success. The other is we consider our retail partners the most necessary like friend in changing children's nutrition for the better. And so did we create value for our retailers.

00;15;48;26 - 00;16;07;16
Katie
And and then at the end, like, you know, does this help achieve our umbrella mission and all those boxes, the ones that we checked, right. That we stood back and we always do a postmortem about 16 weeks out from launch. We do some smaller check ins, but that's where we say, okay, what next? How do we build off of this?

00;16;07;16 - 00;16;25;09
Katie
Where do we go from here and push ourselves for the next step? And I think that's when you look at that and know where where the growth has happened. Now, a year later, it's probably going to be one of the more successful launches I've ever been a part of. And I'm really proud of everyone that had a hand in it.

00;16;25;11 - 00;16;29;14
Jess
That's awesome. And so inspiring. So what is your biggest takeaway from this experience.

00;16;29;14 - 00;17;00;29
Katie
Outside of find a way and make one right like yeah, I, I have three. One is we've talked about it ad nauseum this because we both believe in it, but invest in research at multiple points along the process and don't stop. Like launches getting to it is just the beginning. As you said, which I absolutely love. If you're a smaller brand, making sure that new innovation is incremental to yourself, to the category and focus on your brand block first.

00;17;01;02 - 00;17;22;04
Katie
And I think there's obviously so many areas that strong brand, iconic brands can go to and and it does make sense for them, but is so much harder on yourselves and the team to go to a new buyer or try to make a mark for yourself in a sea of, you know, competitor brands that have been there for a really long time.

00;17;22;04 - 00;17;54;07
Katie
And so make it easier on yourself and grow your brand block first. And last is understand reaction but have a lead mentality and that is you can get lost in data. You can get lost in the present. And the best brands that I've seen that I'm inspired by take risk, that they see the future and they put something out that might be a slower growth out of the gate.

00;17;54;11 - 00;18;14;10
Katie
But when you look back, you're like, they were on to something and it's now a $100 million idea. And that is is hard to do. And I think some of the best founders I've worked with and, you know, I look at Cassandra and Jen and John do just that. They understand the present, but they have a mindset for the future.

00;18;14;13 - 00;18;32;03
Jess
That is perhaps the most powerful and well articulated point that I think is going to give a lot of inspiration to the people listening. So thank you so much for sharing that story. And congratulations on, you know, the first of what will be, I'm sure, many successful launches under your watch.

00;18;32;05 - 00;18;33;04
Katie
Thank you.

00;18;33;06 - 00;18;53;14
Jess
Let's turn now to you as a thought leader. So you are certainly a leader within your your organization, but also really well thought of in the industry. And when we chatted, Katie, you know, you shared with me a very passionate but also a vulnerable point, about, you know, what it means to be uncomfortable in a role and what that can create and lead to.

00;18;53;14 - 00;18;56;26
Jess
So can you talk to us about that? What’s your point of view there?

00;18;56;29 - 00;19;31;21
Katie
Yeah, we did joke when we were talking it and you hit on it here. How long we've been in the industry I'm no spring chicken anymore. And I have realized especially in whether it's a CMO role, marketing role like e-comm, under my purview. How great and how to embrace feeling uncomfortable because it leads to an element that John loves, which is curiosity and we live and work every day in an area where what worked yesterday probably won't work today.

00;19;31;21 - 00;19;55;13
Katie
And there's about a thousand other things that you should be looking at. And exploring and could be really great for engaging with your consumer or selling your product or achieving your mission. So I take AI, for example, I was really uncomfortable by AI, I didn't, it was so big in scope. I didn't know how to make it work, like there was so much research to be done and I can't be an expert on everything.

00;19;55;13 - 00;20;18;15
Katie
So that's where embracing uncomfortable leads to, in my mind, the greatest growth opportunities and in our world, like we sat down. Everybody within the team has an expertise in a specialty and something I think they're the best of the best. And it was, you know, put on that. How do you how does your area use AI?

00;20;18;17 - 00;20;46;14
Katie
Let's try some things. Does it make you more efficient? Does it make us better for the consumer? And some worked some didn't. And now, you know, we just started a great reporting meeting on Monday and there were five different examples of really efficient, amazing AI uses or partners that have made us better. And as I said, I'm still made uncomfortable by it, but it does make me want to learn more and lean in and and get that growth for the team and the company.

00;20;46;14 - 00;20;51;15
Katie
If I stop feeling uncomfortable, I think it's time to leave my job for sure.

00;20;51;18 - 00;21;17;11
Jess
Yeah, yeah, I couldn't agree more with that. And I think what you shared specifically within the context of AI, a lot of your peers in the industry are feeling that same way. I know that at Dig, we get a lot of questions about how to make sense of it, where to best use it within research process. And and we've got some some cutting edge thinking on the topic, but it's a place where I think people that embrace that vulnerability are going to see the greatest return from it.

00;21;17;13 - 00;21;22;04
Jess
And don't act like you know everything to start, because we're all learning every day.

00;21;22;06 - 00;21;45;25
Katie
I am the first with the dumbest of questions and and have had to humble myself in so many ways just to get better and to learn. And as you mentioned with AI, that was also something that that we talked about as a team. Using that example, talk to your partners. Let's talk to our current partners who is leaning in and learning or trying to figure out how AI works for them.

00;21;45;25 - 00;22;07;29
Katie
If they are not, then they are not the right partner for us, because even if they're not going to do anything with it, the mere fact that it was such a topic and continues to be a topic of conversation, if they weren't exploring it, that means that they don't have that mentality that we look for to be a leading and innovative organization.

00;22;08;02 - 00;22;10;14
Jess
Yeah, find a way or make one, right?

00;22;10;15 - 00;22;11;15
Katie
Find a way or make one.

00;22;11;22 - 00;22;18;23
Jess
Cassandra Curtis yeah, I love it. I need to follow her too. So, Katie, tell me, what's your hot take on the future of the snacking industry?

00;22;18;28 - 00;22;53;28
Katie
One that we play in and you know, greatly and I believe in and I actually just see across the board is clean, simple, real ingredients like heavy metals is a big topic within, you know, babies and young kids. We're seeing microplastics. I heard about rocket fuel the other day. So I think just going back to clean real food with natural functionality, gut health, microbiome building, you know how we, who know we'd still be living with Covid, you know, this many years later?

00;22;53;28 - 00;23;22;22
Katie
It's now part of our norm. Immune support. Hydration is another area that I know we're focusing more on for, you know, brain health, overall performance, how that's going to play out, and then sourcing, which goes to the first that I mentioned. I do believe more people are going to pay attention to how they source, where they source, but also the well-being of farmworkers who are the backbone of everything we do.

00;23;22;22 - 00;23;53;03
Katie
And, there is a real opportunity there. We're starting to see it in the research, how it pops up. But the younger generations are so amazing with what they care about. And it is first and foremost, you know, when I was at Organic Week in DC up there of to what people really do, they want to know where their food comes from, but also how well taken care of are those that are putting in the work to get us, you know, the the for us fresh produce that we, we use in ingredients.

00;23;53;05 - 00;23;58;22
Katie
So those are kind of the key areas that I'm keeping an eye on and making sure that we, we play in.

00;23;58;24 - 00;24;24;09
Jess
Yeah. And that's so important. And especially I mean we're both moms and you know it just amplifies the importance of knowing the source and how it got from A to B. It's it's so important when it's your little one that, that's ultimately consuming that. Right. So yeah, it's really important. And I love the note about, you know, the younger generations really caring about how we take care of, you know, these different workforces.

00;24;24;09 - 00;24;26;25
Jess
And there's a very human aspect that I just love about that.

00;24;27;00 - 00;24;29;11
Katie
They're great. They give me hope for sure.

00;24;29;19 - 00;24;47;10
Jess
Yeah. Okay. Well let's go to the final dig. So this is all about you, Katie. As a consumer, as a person, feel free to take off your professional hat for a moment if you wish. Although I find a lot of our leaders, there's not a work version and, you know, personal one. So what's the last product or service that you bought on impulse?

00;24;47;15 - 00;25;12;24
Katie
I do always love, I'm taken by packaging and snacking, like, for myself, for my kids. So I just bought Mavericks. It's a brand that's caught my eye. I love their packaging. I love kind of their mentality. It's great for my kids are, you know, eight and ten. I just purchased at Whole Foods. They're sandwich crackers and I'm anxious to kind of just see if how my kids like it.

00;25;12;24 - 00;25;23;21
Katie
It's, you know, more on the better for you realm than what has traditionally been out there we grew up with. So yes, it's yeah, it's a fun brand that caught my eye that I threw in my cart.

00;25;23;24 - 00;25;26;08
Jess
And now it's all about the repeat to your point. Right.

00;25;26;11 - 00;25;31;23
Katie
Exactly, exactly. Well I'll tell you what happens after the lunchbox comes home from camp today.

00;25;31;23 - 00;25;43;06
Jess
Right. Exactly. That's how we judge. So what's the category or brand or maybe even a specific product that you could rationalize any price point for. You just have to have it in your life.

00;25;43;09 - 00;26;22;12
Katie
Clean and healthy food. Like that is one I think Covid did that for a lot of people in the pandemic. When we were inside, we, we rationalized, understood the importance of good food. Handbags for me, yeah, Goyard handbag from Quality Design like I appreciate and coffee I underappreciated good coffee until working with a lot of former Stumptown employees at Brew Dr. who taught me to greatly appreciate all the elements of, you know, coffee in general.

00;26;22;16 - 00;26;27;16
Katie
And I can rationalize that purchase every morning.

00;26;27;18 - 00;26;31;16
Jess
It's hard when you are exposed to that, because then you can't go back like you can't go.

00;26;31;16 - 00;26;44;04
Katie
You can't go back. You can't. I mean, I was like, really? I need this type of grinder? And, it I was proven wrong. It does make a huge difference. So yes. I can't go back ever.

00;26;44;07 - 00;26;54;26
Jess
There are worse things to be enamored with. So brands have distinct personalities. What's a brand that you would date and what's the brand that you might marry? And they're not always the same brand. We can be honest about that.

00;26;54;28 - 00;27;32;05
Katie
Yeah, they are not, you know, outside of of course, Once Upon a Farm, I would date Poppi. It's a fun one. It's fun, sparkling personality, possibly a little sassy, up for an adventure. So, yes, I would definitely date Poppi. And I would marry Bobbie formula brand, trustworthy, outspoken on advocacy. High quality.

00;27;32;12 - 00;27;41;22
Katie
Just there's a lot that of brands I admire. Like that is definitely a brand that I would, you know commit to for sure.

00;27;41;22 - 00;27;54;10
Jess
Yeah. For the long term I love it. Those are some good reasons, some good drivers of that choice. Well, Katie, we've picked up on a lot of what keeps you energized and inspired. But I'd love to finish off with what does keep you inspired at work.

00;27;54;13 - 00;28;24;18
Katie
Working for a purpose driven, mission driven organization like Once Upon a Farm, where every employee is so inspired every single day to make a difference in the world. You know, for us it's about changing the industry and providing access to better foods for children and also helping for a healthier, happier, more equitable planet. And that, and the employees that I work with on a daily basis are really what makes my job fun.

00;28;24;25 - 00;28;35;18
Jess
That's fantastic to hear and it's inspiring to hear. Thank you so much for sharing your story and the background of the company. This has really been an invaluable conversation. So thank you again for joining us.

00;28;35;20 - 00;28;40;04
Katie
Thank you Jess, you have a great rest of your day.

00;28;40;06 - 00;28;41;09
VO
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00;28;41;11 - 00;28;46;15
VO
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