Jess (00:17)
Welcome everybody to the Dig In Podcast. Today I am joined by someone I have admired for years. I am so excited to finally sit down and talk with you, Kadjali Tonka, Senior Director, Consumer and Brand Insights at Microsoft. Thank you so much for joining us today.

Kajoli Tankha (00:32)
I'm so excited to be here. Thanks Jess.

Jess (00:34)
Yeah, let's get going with an impromptu question. So I'll throw this one out at you. What superhero would you most want to be?

Kajoli Tankha (00:43)
My superhero is Hermione Granger from the Harry Potter series. I'm an unabashed Potterhead. I love the stories of there being an alternate magical world. And I also love the underlying themes in the series, which is around, know, good things,

don't always happen to good people. It's like bad things also happen, but you can keep your character and courage. And that's what I think Hermione Granger symbolizes. And she and I happened to have the same birthday, September 19th, so.

Jess (01:11)
Do you really? wow.

Kajoli Tankha (01:12)
Yeah,

plus I think I have always kind of sought, you know, comfort from books and reading. And I feel like Hermione embodies those qualities.

Jess (01:25)
Did you get to reread the series with your kids like did you experience it almost twice?

Kajoli Tankha (01:31)
Actually, I have experienced the stories many, times. I was updating my Goodreads, but it's not because of my kids. My son is autistic, so he's not really into fiction. He's mostly into nonfiction, you know, but I'm very much a child myself, so I have re-experienced them many, times. And every time I have a hard time in life, I go and re-read the series again.

Jess (01:34)
Okay.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, very cool. I love that. So tell us a little bit about your background and where you are now.

Kajoli Tankha (01:59)
So my background is kind of all over the place a little

so first I have a master's in forestry and I started out in the NGO world and found I could make very little money even though the job itself was kind of interesting but I could make very little money and so to support myself I tried to pick anything that would not be kind of social work related.

Jess (02:07)
wow.

Kajoli Tankha (02:21)
And the first job I got was that of a focus group moderator and I had no idea what focus groups were. But it was awesome and it started me into market research. So I fell into market research, but just it's been one of the most amazing careers. So I worked on the agency side and had a lot of experience with, know, this was back in the days when India was first getting privatized. So there were all these multinational companies coming into India. And so even as a very, very early career researcher who really should have no business.

working on these important brand issues, I got to work on a lot of amazing stuff. And then I worked for a company which I absolutely love called Bush's baked beans. And I spent about 10 years there.

Bush's baked beans is in Tennessee. And I think I mentioned my son is autistic. And so we wanted to move to a place which was a little bit better for autism. And so at that time, I just Googled

top 10 places for autism and direct the market research and this job in Microsoft came up. And so then I came to Microsoft and then for the past 12 years, I've been here and I've worked in a variety. know, Microsoft, the great part about Microsoft is you can have a variety of careers without really even changing your parking spot.

Jess (03:20)
wow.

Kajoli Tankha (03:32)
yeah, it's really amazing. so I've spent a bunch of time managing campaigns, then some time managing social insights.

then product research, now I do all of consumer product research. So that's Windows, Surface, Xbox, and 365 Search, and AI. I also work on societal impact. And then I coordinate, I and my team, we coordinate AI across all of Microsoft, across consumer and commercial.

Jess (03:59)
So whenever I hear you describe your role, I am left wondering, what do you not do at Microsoft? Because it truly sounds like everything is under your purview and just casually tossing AI in there as a capability. And you mentioned societal. What are you doing in that realm?

Kajoli Tankha (04:17)
So that's something new, but we are basically trying to figure out how Microsoft should communicate to policy makers, how Microsoft should

should demonstrate its better societal impact. Microsoft is actually very committed to a lot of social good. So just trying to do the research that we're projecting ourselves in the way that we are intending to come across and brand tracking, things like that. So.

Jess (04:39)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Kajoli Tankha (04:41)
There's actually a ton of research in Microsoft that I don't do because as you can imagine,

for Microsoft is commercial, the major area. So I'm consumer and societal impact and brand, but there's a whole massive, crucial strategic area which is commercial. then, that's led by my colleague, you might know her, Mary Ann. And then we have a different area which is data science and...

media insights. So that's led by my colleague Rob Graves.

Jess (05:10)
Yeah, lots of good people there at Microsoft. So let's dig into some of your background, Kajoli, because we were talking about our listeners really do crave inspiration from other leaders. And one of the best ways to inspire is to tell a story. And you had so many stories that we had trouble nailing down just one. So I'd love for you to just kind of tell us some of your most memorable experiences helping bring things to market, what you learned along the way. Tell us a few stories.

Kajoli Tankha (05:38)
my early career when I was a focus group moderator and that was really amazing because this was a time when rural India, most people didn't even have like television. would have, know, everybody would join together in the community to watch the one television that the community had gotten. So this was completely like fresh respondents. There was no panels, nothing like this. This was kind of like community outreach in rural areas.

I remember the first time I went for a set of focus groups, it was a women's focus group on, you know, A1T, which

brand of cheap tea. And the husbands showed up because they didn't know who was this strange woman who was coming in to talk to their wives. Anyway, so I would say my most interesting, you know, at that time, because there were so little norms and so little known about India, we were able to do some pretty groundbreaking

and sort of foundational research. Some of the best insights really came in terms of packaging, because in India, in rural areas, everything was sold in the open. So it was all bulk purchases. And one of the things we did was for a Lipton tea, where we were trying to understand what were the key barriers to making customers switch from this open tea into packaged tea. And there were no product-related barriers, but the main barrier was they wanted to be able to see and feel the tea.

And so from that, we came up with the idea of having a sort of a transparent window. So it sounds like a minor thing, but that was pivotal in making Lipton-T really popular. Another thing related to packaging was the satiating. So there was a wave coming into India once India got privatized.

about all the possibilities that existed in terms of like brand and joy. There was no department stores, nothing like that. So suddenly people started kind of craving kind of a bigger world for themselves. And one of the ways we did that in shampoo was to actually sell shampoos in very tiny packages because most people would get their daily wages. They would not be able to afford like a full bottle of shampoo.

but they could afford a sachet of shampoo for two rupees, which is like a very few pennies. And when we did qualitative research, we kind of realized that those moments that a woman had by herself washing her hair like once a week, enveloped in that fragrance of this exotic smell, as well as kind of the feel of her hair turning really silky.

And that sort of like little space that she made for herself was like really powerful. And so I think the satiatification of a lot of like, what would be luxury goods in rural India, I think that was one of the things that was a major insight. it's, you know, it was something that I think forever made me understand that it's important to really see things from, you know, the customer's perspective and her life.

And what are the challenges in her life and how is she looking to overcome those challenges? Like right now with, you know, I'm so American, I would think all this packaging was like, all these insights around packaging is not really good. Like people should not be, it's kind of destroying the world or something. You know, I would kind of think very differently about it. But at that time, Jess, I understood that those few moments of pleasure that a woman got just for herself taking a bath.

with a bucket of cold water that she had pulled out of the well, but then sort of be connected to all of the modern world through this tiny packet of a few cents of shampoo was something really special. So, yeah.

Jess (09:27)
Yeah, that's so

powerful. Well, and that speaks to, you know, the insights professional, our role is to be highly empathetic to those consumers and understanding their needs and their desires and what that outcome is that they want to achieve by using our product or service. And so what a great embodiment of that, you know, that you could really understand that on a deep level. And and I'm with you that it might sound simple that, you put

Kajoli Tankha (09:30)
Yeah.

Jess (09:52)
a clearer window on the tea packaging or you look at a different size, but that's a major decision for those businesses to make and to execute in that market. So it needs to be based on really robust understanding. So those are excellent examples. And what a way to start your career.

Kajoli Tankha (10:11)
Yep, was, you know, and I think it really made me fall in love with market research. So I have been working in research now for 26 years and I just, it wasn't something I planned to do, but like now that I'm in it, I just think that what a world of wonder that has opened up. Because one is like, first of all, the market research community. It's amazing. And second, this ability, especially on the agency side to switch from, you know, cars, motorcycles, lipstick, shampoo.

You know, I think that was pretty darn amazing. And then finally, no matter where you are in the inside cycle, to be able to kind of see your situation completely from someone else's perspective, I think that is a gift that just keeps on giving.

Jess (10:56)
Yeah. And I love that you said you of fell into this career and you used a phrase that I really was relevant with me because in my first job, was, say as a child, they gave me keys to a car and I should not have been driving. But man, did I, you know, take it for a spin. I got to try and do so many things really early on in my career that I should have had no business doing. But what a gift to be putting those opportunities. Yeah.

Kajoli Tankha (11:20)
What a gift.

What a gift. You know, I can jump to another story, actually. This is, you know, in my time in Bush's Baked Beans, which, by the way, is an amazing company in Knoxville, Tennessee. And one of the insights we had, and this was completely a team effort, know, have a bunch of people, very, very, very smart people that I was working with. The insight was that, you know, whenever people think of baked beans, they always associate them with grilling occasions. But in most of the grilling occasions, people don't have baked beans.

So the idea was how do you associate baked beans with the grilling occasions in such a way that they are unmissable for that grilling moment. So that's when we came up with grilling beans. And these were just baked beans, but they had like sort of jacked up amazing flavor profiles. I worked on this with a bunch of team members and the name itself, the flavor profile like bourbon and brown sugar, they were so evocative of the very rich.

grilling culture that happens in the South, that it actually increased household penetration dramatically for baked beans. So I would say that's a naming example. And then finally, I'd give a campaign example. This is when we were trying to launch touchscreen for Windows 8. And my boss at that time had this idea that all advertising could be broken up into component parts. So I and a bunch of people, sat and watched. We had a large amount of copy.

We looked

results, and then we took the copy and we decomposed the copy into its component parts. And we figured out that what was really making the ads, what was really kind of making the ads persuasive, as well as that increased consideration for the brand, was kind of the number of minutes that the protagonist interacted with the device on the touchscreen. So.

That was another one I think that was kind of amazing, which slowly made Microsoft campaigns super powerful.

Jess (13:18)
Yeah. So when you talk about your team, you dissected that copy. So do you apply that same kind of framework when you're evaluating creative now? Maybe not with the same formula if you're in a different product set, with that same idea of... Because I imagine that interacting with the device is what puts the consumer in that place of that person. It directly connects them to that ad. Do you apply that same kind of...

thinking when you look at other creative or other processes.

Kajoli Tankha (13:48)
Yes, so we do apply the similar kind of thinking. Microsoft advertising is a lot more sophisticated now. So this was the early days when we were trying to really figure out how to come up with some really powerful advertising. But yes, we do look quite a bit at the component parts. But I would say we just know a lot more. So we don't have to flounder so much. I would say personally for me, as an ad researcher, find it's very important to see particularly the broad creative, like a kind of.

Jess (14:08)
Yeah.

Kajoli Tankha (14:18)
what you would think of as a video, an OLV or something that would, mean, TV is not really relevant, but think about it in terms of an online video. You know, I really try to think of, you know, the characters of it in terms of just like a dramatic setup. So who is the protagonist, who is the antagonist, who is the ally, and where is the customer when they're kind of watching the ad, where are they putting themselves? I think that is...

Like a very, we kind of, for the most part, we really kind of focus, I think a lot of in ad research, we tend to focus on benefits and things like that. But like, think where the customer is putting, again, that empathy we talked about in the beginning, like where are they putting themselves inside the video is a very important thing because that determines the whole experience of the ad. So for example, when we used to do these bushes baked beans commercial.

you would watch these ads where the plot basically is, it's been going on for 15 years and it's a super successful plot, which is that there's a dog who has been told the secret family recipe, but actually the dog can talk. so therefore the whole thing is like, he let out the secret family recipe? Anytime in a focus group, if you heard the customer saying something like, dogs can't talk, you know they had not put themselves inside the ad. And I think...

Jess (15:43)
Great.

Kajoli Tankha (15:46)
I really thinking about the viewer's mirror neurons and how they're experiencing the spot is a, yes, so, yes, we really think about the customer experience of the spots in a far more sophisticated way, but yeah, component parts in that particular sense, not just in the elements that make the ad, the physical elements that make the ad compelling, but also if you're trying to show a story, how do you write the story in such a way that

the person experiences in the way that you are wanting it to be experienced.

Jess (16:19)
Yeah, and that's where the magic happens, right? That's where the art meets science. Do you have a story from your past, Kadjali, where something just went terribly wrong and you had to really overcome a significant barrier?

Kajoli Tankha (16:22)
Thank you.

So this is from my time in India. We were doing research around sanitary napkins and we didn't understand, like my stakeholder didn't understand and I didn't understand that this was actually an issue.

that is really shrouded in a lot of secrecy and shame for

we had set this up, you know, in a focus group format with like lights, camera, and like, the women we talking to were just like, so this was very early in my career. That was a terrible mistake. So of course we read it everything and we did individual interviews and there was no recording. And from that I learned many lessons, you know.

Jess (16:58)
Yeah.

Kajoli Tankha (17:11)
One is that, again, that empathy lesson. And second is, don't say yes to things that don't work. I would just do, my boss used to have this saying, when HLL ask, jump, which is Unilever in India, you only ask how high. And that is like something I just won't work for anywhere like that anymore. it's just, so I would say that's one terrible mistake. I've made many more terrible mistakes. so.

Jess (17:24)
Hmm.

Kajoli Tankha (17:38)
The other part that's maybe not relevant to just what you're asking, but in terms of a process situation. So when you're working in a large company like Microsoft, you often try to address one stakeholder at a time. So you'll have one process, there'll be an outcome you're driving to that's for the good of the company, but there are many stakeholders who have very different perspectives on the same problem. And one of the major mistakes you can make is you can go, it's like a whack-a-mole problem solution solving.

you solve one problem, that another problem emerges. And what you really need to do is you need to get the whole group together to solve the problem together. And so if you can, in Microsoft, if you can set up these cross-functional processes with some clear outcomes, you're much more likely to succeed. So this is something, a mistake I made for several years and then kind of like we solved it systematically through some great advice from a lot of people. And now joint problem solving is something

That's part of our way.

Jess (18:39)
That sounds like an important journey to take though, to kind of work through that whack-a-mole kind one-on-one stakeholder conversations to something that's more holistic. guess, gosh, how do other businesses do that? Is it about just making sure that you rally the right people? Is it about how you socialize and deploy it? Like, what's the, guess, biggest tip you'd have for companies that want to do joint problem solving?

Kajoli Tankha (18:44)
Mm-hmm.

You know, you don't need a lot of joint problem solving in companies, but the decision making criteria are just like, this is the person who will decide and that's it. In Microsoft, it's very collective. So I would say that is like, in my private company was also very collective, which is big means we're also very collective. So I really learned this way of like joint problem solving and like getting everyone to collect around the.

Jess (19:14)
Mm-hmm.

Kajoli Tankha (19:32)
You know aligned to the problem and then aligned to the results and you know, I think research professionals have a very key role to play in that Because we can come in with the customers voice, you know And we are you really have to be kind of unbiased in how you're approaching the problem. So think I think we have like a very Kind of Crucial and critical role, but you don't need to do this if you have a dictatorship then you just like

you can just go to the most important person and you can solve the problem. But I have never worked in a company that was widely a dictatorship. So would say figuring out the kind of how to create the system, I think that's really critical, Jess. And then the other thing I would say

so

2008,

2010 time, there was a lot about like research, getting a seat at the table. I don't know if you attended any conferences, like every conference would start with

person would say,

will be something about ROI. And then there would be another one about a seat at the table. So that's a big one. But I found it really effective if you can actually create the own table that other people come

that's, think another way in which you are really able to get the customer voice.

into the process. And you have to be skilled at like, I sometimes feel like the most valuable skills I learned in my life from being a focus group moderator.

Jess (20:52)
Sure, yeah, absolutely. You have to listen to all the diverse perspectives, make sure everyone has a voice. You have to remain highly neutral. That's the hardest thing for me, but that's why I was never born to be a moderator. I

I can't, I don't have a

Kajoli Tankha (21:04)
You know,

Jess (21:05)
face.

Kajoli Tankha (21:06)
and you know, it's like the interesting thing is I've kind of realized that it's actually impossible to be neutral.

You know, so in fact, like not even to try that, but to be aware of your biases. I think that's the that's the maximum one can hope for. Like, at least you know, but most people, the problem with most people is that they don't know that they are not neutral.

Jess (21:15)
Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah.

Kajoli Tankha (21:30)
So they come in with

a lot of biases. So I think my goal standard is just, I'm gonna try and be aware of what my biases are. As long as I can do that and not try to shape the outcome in a way that's not good for the company, you know, I feel good about it.

Jess (21:46)
Yeah, yeah. Well, lessons learned over many years, I know. So let's talk about your role in the industry as a thought leader related to AI, because this is not only in your job title, but it's in how you interact with your colleagues across the industry. what are some of your more passionate viewpoints about the role of AI in research, but also just in the industry?

Kajoli Tankha (21:51)
Mm-hmm.

I think the number one guess I would say is, I think I see a lot of people putting their head in the sand with AI, and a lot of people just like AI washing. And I think all of that, both of those extremes are, they're not gonna work. I think I myself, I'm an AI optimist, but I think a lot of people right now are treating AI optimism as some kind of character virtue, and it isn't.

You know, it's like I try to surround myself with a good balance of AI skeptics and AI optimists because there is no doubt in my mind that AI is going to transform everything, including market research. So simply the question is whether you're going to be a part of it or not. And if you are too much in awe of it and too excited about every new thing that comes out, you are going to be so disappointed. And if you are too skeptical that you're just ignoring it and saying, hey, the

classic market research is the way to go, it's pretty sure that it won't be that way in the future. So I think kind of like, if you're an optimist, surround yourself with some skeptics and listen to them. If you're a skeptic, surround yourself with some optimists and listen to what they are doing. But like, just try to keep forging ahead. I would strongly recommend everyone get a Copilot, Gemini, ChatGPT subscription.

and start using it in your personal life. Because if you start using it your personal life, you'll suddenly realize that it is actually pretty miraculous, the better you get at it. That's the part I think most people don't kind of pay attention to. There is a huge role that you have to play in terms of getting the AI to

Jess (23:41)
Yeah.

I was just going to agree that I think that there has to be a certain level of intellectual curiosity that comes with exploring AI tools because there's no manual today of, here's how to replace some of your everyday tasks through AI. You need to get into AI, start using it, exploring, seeing what works and what doesn't, and then apply it to your job is what I'm viewing.

Kajoli Tankha (23:57)
Thank you.

Jess (24:12)
are your teams using AI? you?

telling them this is what we want you to go use it for, or are you allowing them to kind of have that freedom to explore and see what works?

Kajoli Tankha (24:20)
I create a mixture of both. So I have one of my colleagues, Rob Graves, he's really sort of steeped in building a bunch of AI tools that we use internally. So I think one of the AI tools that we're doing is something

Chat, which is kind of, we have all of our research sort of uploaded into one site, one big SharePoint site.

Hub Chat is a way that you can actually chat with all of that information in that site.

You know, so that's something like it's almost mandatory for everybody in my team to try and do that. And then the other part that's mandatory for them is to make sure they're uploading all their research there, right? Because we got to make HubJet smarter. So that's mandatory. The other things I am trying is that we have this core priority process in Microsoft. So I just make sure that everybody has a use AI core priority.

Jess (24:50)
Sure. Yeah.

Rare, yeah.

Kajoli Tankha (25:07)
so they have to do their, you know,

whether it be that they are

you know, my

Richard Robert Graves, you know, the things that he's preparing, for example, synthetic audiences, they can use that, or they can use something else, but they have

show some progress. They don't have to do it in any particular way, but they have to show some progress. And I believe in like allowing the person to understand what will actually

for the business problem that they are in. So for example, if you're in

might not want to do a segmentation using kind of AI agents, for instance. It's like you're trying to reframe, you're trying to restart the entire category.

If you're in search, you may be very cautious because search actually is a really evolving area. I like the individual researcher to be accountable for, but the only thing that we are mandating is that you have use AI in your core priority. How you do it is up to you.

Jess (25:56)
Right.

Yeah, I think that makes a lot of sense. And it also is making me reflect on your role as a leader. It's not necessarily to be an expert in those applications for each of those business units or, you know, parts of the business, but it's rather to be guiding the philosophy of how AI is adopted and used within

teams. And

Kajoli Tankha (26:28)
That is correct.

Jess (26:29)
an important differentiation.

Kajoli Tankha (26:31)
100 % yes, I mean that's pretty much kind of my management philosophy anyways. For example, even for a few years back, I really kind of put a lot of emphasis in my team on focusing on business impact. So everybody, when they do a project, they had to first get a research brief written on what decision this project would make. And then when we have like a half yearly review,

where everyone on my team presents all of their projects in one standard format, where they say, this is the business problem, this is what the research insights were, and this is the decision that was taken as a result of the research. And so I'll mandate something like that. But I try my best to mandate very, very, very few things. Because freedom is one of my core management principles.

Jess (27:27)
Yeah, well, I'm sure that's one of the reasons why people love working for you because I hear about that all the time. Your street cred is very strong. So we're going to go to the final dig. This is just all about you as a person and, you know,

to know you a little bit better. So what's the

Kajoli Tankha (27:39)
Mm-hmm.

Jess (27:41)
product or service you bought on impulse?

Kajoli Tankha (27:43)
So I am obsessed with cleaning. I'm not very good at it, but I love cleaning. Yes Yes, so I would say the Dyson Gen 5 on Black Friday That was my impulse buy and I'm so excited because I actually haven't had

Jess (27:46)
Really?

Bye.

Kajoli Tankha (27:58)
mind space to enjoy and use it properly. So it's right now It's just set up and it's just lying there. But this weekend I'm planning to you know, kind of use it and try it out and maybe even do a video

have a different version of the Dyson vacuum. And if people haven't used it, this is, I think Dyson's one of my favorite companies. They have this thing where you can, if you can turn the lights off, the laser light shows you all the dust particles. It is the number one gross satisfaction of your life. To turn the lights off, turn that thing on, realize how dirty your house is, and then transform it. I'll just tell you, this is a middle-aged peak like nothing else.

Jess (28:36)
Okay, can I just go back to what you said? I love cleaning. I'm not that good at it. I don't know who wants to be good at cleaning, but I love what this does for you. This is your form of self care. I mean, that's amazing.

Kajoli Tankha (28:48)
my

God, 100%. There's like nothing more joyful for me than me and my Dyson with its 40 minute battery. You know, it's at the end of the day when everybody's in there, it's like the house is dark and I'm just, it's like good conquering evil, Jess. It's just like good conquering evil.

Jess (29:05)
my gosh.

I love it. Well, Dyson might be your answer to my next question, but is there a category or brand that you could rationalize any price point for? You just have to have it in your life.

Kajoli Tankha (29:18)
you know, an AI robot. So as much as I, you know, and I learned this when I was for the 10, 12 years that I've worked on food is the number one, the question of like, what's for dinner is something a mealmaker is going to face. Like if you are the person who's accountable for your family's meals, at least deciding them, you're going to face 10,000 times in your life. And to me, yes, it is the most annoying thing. So I would say there are two things that

Jess (29:19)
Mmm.

So depressing.

Kajoli Tankha (29:47)
I am most excited about the future is a robot for like cooking chores and things like that and real self-driving. know, so those two things, I think like if you can get anywhere you want and if you can get a bunch of chores done, I think you could remove some of the rubbish friction in your life and you could get some of the good friction in your life that you want.

Jess (29:55)
Yeah.

Yeah. Okay. Less rubbish friction, more good friction. I agree with that. We all know that brands have distinct personalities. What's a brand that you would like to date and one that you'd like to marry? And they don't have to be the same brand.

Kajoli Tankha (30:20)
You know, Jess, when you're my age, it's the same. It's the same brand. You know, like I wouldn't waste if I was single. I wouldn't waste any time, you know, on someone who was dateable, but someone who was not marriageable. And I think I'm all about brains. I've always been all about brains, you know, so my I think the brand that I would pick is probably Kindle and it combines like all of the qualities that my actual husband has. So

Jess (30:23)
you

Mm.

Kajoli Tankha (30:45)
is very brainy, very loyal, know, always there for you and it just keeps, just getting better and better. I would probably have said Tesla a few months back, but now unfortunately can no longer say that. But yeah, I might have said Tesla and Starlink a few months back, but for those same

Jess (30:56)
Yeah.

Kajoli Tankha (31:04)
Jess what would your brand be actually?

Jess (31:06)
gosh, I've actually been afraid of someone turning this around on me. Well, so I think I would, I think the brand that I would marry would be Chevrolet because that is a brand that's been part of in my family, sort of in our DNA for a number of years. And nostalgically, I do have, we inherited my dad's old 77 Chevrolet and it's,

We call it the Grevco truck. was his nickname and it sits out front and reminds me of him every day. So I'd probably, you know, that to me has been like a illustration of same kind of qualities you mentioned, like loyalty, support, that kind of thing. That's a brand I would, I would marry. And I don't know. I I'm the same person. I'm the same as you in terms of like dating and marrying. Like I'm a, I'm a marrying kind of gal. So I don't, I don't think I would choose a different brand. Yeah. But yeah.

Kajoli Tankha (31:49)
you

Me too. Me too. Me too.

Jess (31:57)
So gosh, what keeps you inspired at work? Everything you've said to me today has been inspiring. So it's probably really hard for you to choose what keeps you going.

Kajoli Tankha (32:06)
first of all, I love market research. So I'm a diehard fan of market research and I feel like it's one of those fields that is just reinventing itself. There's so many, you know, so many forms that are just new and exciting. So many lovely, like brilliant people in this field. So I'm very excited about that. But I think I am very excited about AI. You know, I think, I

often say paradigm shift, transformation, like these words have just like lost their meaning and we have so much fatigue from using these words, I won't use them. But I would say we are in the middle of one of those things. And I don't think it's like when the internet first started, you know, so I think it's gonna be pretty mind blowing.

I'm

Jess (32:56)
Yeah.

Kajoli Tankha (32:56)
there for it, I'm in for it.

Jess (32:58)
Yeah,

I am too. And I share your optimism, but I really like the advice to surround yourself with some skeptics as well, because it's that push and pull that's going to allow us to recognize the most from this inflection point. I agree. Yeah. thank you so much for spending time with us today. It's been such a joy to have you on the podcast. I always learn so much whenever I get to speak to you. I truly it's it's an honor for you to join us today.

Kajoli Tankha (33:06)
100%. 100%.

Jess, the honor is all mine. I've always really loved our interactions at the various conferences. So thank you for the opportunity. It was such a pleasure talking to you.