Jess Gaedeke (00:00)
Well, welcome everybody to the Dig In Podcast. Today, I am joined by a longtime friend of Dig Insights. I am thrilled to have you here today. We have Marat Fleytlikh Director, Consumer Insights at Perdue Farms. Thank you so much for taking some time to chat with me today.

Marat Fleytlikh (00:14)
My pleasure. Looking forward to it all day. That's awesome.

Jess Gaedeke (00:17)
Well, let's get going with an impromptu question. You haven't seen this coming your way, so I'm gonna try to give you like my best curve ball. So let's see, what's one thing on your desk right now that says a lot about you?

Marat Fleytlikh (00:28)
Ooh, my notebook. I'm gonna, I have a prop. I'm still an old person that actually uses a notebook. Everybody's, you know, on one note and I use Post-its and I have a different color notebook as it runs out. I'm very tactile. I've got pictures of my daughters in there. It's, you know, it's multifaceted. Something that literally doesn't always manifest. You can't, you know, bust out your one note and say like,

Jess Gaedeke (00:30)
Yeah?

yeah.

Digital and all the things. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah?

Yeah.

Marat Fleytlikh (00:56)
No, I've got to hear at a meeting if I need a little exhale. Take a picture, you know, take a look. it's,

Jess Gaedeke (00:59)
Yeah. So

then when you're done with them, do they go on a bookshelf? So you have a nice like rainbow of all these different notebooks from over the years.

Marat Fleytlikh (01:08)
I wish, my wife does not let me display them, so I've got a drawer full of notebooks. They are initial, like they're sentimental, like I have doodles, I have stuff, I like date them. It's definitely me, it's very strange.

Jess Gaedeke (01:11)
Thank

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, that would say

a lot about you, not just in the fact that you love this tactile piece, but I'm sure there's a lot of thinking that's in those notebooks.

Well, tell us a little bit about your background, Marat, and your role today at Perdue.

Marat Fleytlikh (01:31)
Sure. So I was brought in during a of a transformation era, right? As Perdue's been around for 100 plus years, we've always been consumer centric, but in the last 10, 15 or so, it's really become product centric, right? Of how do we get product out there to more people, timely, et cetera. But being brought in during a transformation, it's really going back to the basics. Why are we here? What does the consumer need? What do they...

looking for. And I've been able to bring some of that thinking from previous roles, build out a team that's really bringing the voice of the consumer to every decision and kind of pressure test it. Are we doing this for us? Are we doing this for them? And having the consumer being on the front line, I think it makes a difference in why we are and how we manifest. So it's been a great year here. I'm looking for more to come in the future. But yeah, it's been eye-opening as far as the

amazing collaboration that we have across teams, et cetera. Like it's been a super fun experience. Prior to Perdue, I was at Kraft Heinz at Tyson, kind of on the CPG side, and spent some time on the vendor side. So I've got kind of this dual hat of, you know, where does the data come from? And then what do we do with this data? But really the implication based, now let's go act, is really the driver of, you know, now we know what are we gonna do now.

Jess Gaedeke (02:51)
So I should have known this about you. didn't know that you had time on the vendor side, but I could totally see that coming because you're a highly empathetic guy that you can tell has seen both sides of this equation. And I don't know which which side you call the dark side, Marat, but sometimes, you know.

Marat Fleytlikh (03:08)
There's Darth. Listen,

I see both sides quite fondly. think getting the fundamentals right of what we do, why we do it, and how do we do it right, I think is necessary. If I was on this side of the business without knowing how some of those fundamentals are done, you just take everything verbatim. Yep, that's perfect. Yep, that's a perfect way of asking that question. But what I lacked

vendor side or the supplier side is really around now.

I've delivered this 90 page report. I've delivered this really tight one pager. What happens to it? Does it get shelved? You know, does it show up at CEO's desk? And being on this side of the business, I get to kind of tie the threads together and take it to that final step and really action off it. So it's been rewarding to see both sides. Empathy, 100%. I know I've been in that seat and it sucks sometimes not having the whole story or everything in the full context. So I probably overshare and provide.

more information than necessary, but I think we're partners in this boat of work streams, if you will. And if we can't do it together, we probably both fail at the end. So if we both succeed, I think that's a win for everyone on board.

Jess Gaedeke (04:16)
Yeah,

excellent. Well, I know that that perspective is actually a nice tee up to their story that you're going to share with us. So let's dig in. As you know, our listeners crave inspiration from other leaders. And one of the best ways to inspire is to tell a story in my opinion. So you have a great story about your time at Kraft Heinz. It's on a brand that is near and dear to my heart because I also supported this brand for many years, the Classico brand. And I love this story because it's a little bit of a don't

fix what ain't broken kind of thing, right? Which is a really tough lesson sometimes to learn. So can you take us back to that time that you were supporting that brand? And what was some of the context going around with Classico at the time?

Marat Fleytlikh (04:59)
100 % no, you're spot on, right? Sometimes you come in midstream and we were going through a slight reorg as far as we're friends, we support it and I walked on to the classical desk and you pick up work streams as they were midway through and ready to go. And as I was uncovering the go-do, it was almost a hail Mary moment and the team was really pondering, how do we modernize?

How do we transform? And I didn't see the brief at the time, but as I was looking at some of the visuals that they were looking to test, I could have sworn somebody went into the briefing process and on a zero to 10 scale of how much, they were like, 10. And listen, the designs are beautiful. Some that I would even hang behind me as a beautiful poster. But as we started to talk to consumers, it was a little too far out, right? They weren't coming back as strong as we anticipated from a modernity standpoint.

So we really took a step back and my motto and I probably borrowing it and it's become jargon at this point, but going, going slow to go fast. Sometimes you got to go back a step, right? Let's, let's not push this through and have a failure. Let's really go back and see what's broken. Right. As much as we want to see if there's a consumer need for a certain situation, the same is true is what's not working then let's go fix that. So as we took a step back and really assessed the category and who was winning.

at shelf from a driver standpoint, right? Of what components of the pack resonated. We were winning on some of them. And we were like, guys, hold on, hold on. I know modernity, modernity always, but guess what? We're actually winning on X and we're winning on Y. And this other attribute's a little murky. Maybe this is somewhere we can focus. So from showcasing an agency brief, we were much tighter in what we wanted to fix. And it wasn't a hail Mary moment.

It was really a facelift moment, right? How do we minutiae change our way into something a little more modern versus burning down all your distinctive assets that you've probably built over 20 plus years, not 30 plus years at this point, how do we be the best we that we are, right? Best we, how do we be the best brand that we are versus redesigning and kind of almost blowing it up to a degree that.

the leakage wouldn't help, right? Like if we lost X amount of oils, that wouldn't get us to where we are, because we wouldn't get new consumers to the table. So I haven't been on the business for quite some time, but I know some aspects were modernized, where it was like, do we really need a crackling effect where it looks, no we not, right? So again, more facelift than blow up, but sometimes some questions come back of we don't need to do them, right? It's not a resume build of I got this brand to a better spot.

It's more of what do the brand need, right? What do the consumer want in a way to still break through and make your loyalists happy, but attract new folks because you are able to flex on X, Y, and Z. So it's a full swing moment there of we tried and a Hail Mary would have been interesting, but risk averse, right? Like why break it if you don't need to?

Jess Gaedeke (07:59)
Right. Well, and it's so tempting with design.

We like we said, we could talk all day about this particular aspect of CPG marketing because it's just so powerful. And there is this temptation to to swing for the fence and to just really go big because you can learn a lot through exploring that that and the 10 part of the range you're talking about. But sometimes it's those really smaller, but more meaningful changes that can really appeal to the consumer. So I'm just curious, like what

types of insights, principles did you instill along the way? Like how did you approach that initiative to maybe take a step back? What were some of the things that you did as a leader?

Marat Fleytlikh (08:38)
Sure, and I think the conversation starts around distinctiveness, right? Brand building doesn't happen overnight. That's why new brands can't just launch out of nowhere and be huge successes all over the place. It takes a groundswell to actually make that happen. What's the saying? It takes 10 years to be an overnight success. The thing is true in eroding brand equities, where overnight you can flip the switch and all of sudden lose your core because they can't find you.

Right? An example when I worked on the Hillshire farm business and we were really red in a Tupperware container. And we talked to Oscar Mayer folks and they're like, yeah, buy the yellow one. Distinctively, right? So it's aspects like that of what are we willing to change and what can't we change because that is really our brand mark. Thus the definition of what a brand is. It could go beyond logo as far as colors, as far as fonts, even tonality of the brand. All those principles, we have to live and breathe, right?

change a few that all of a sudden might pivot the consumer away, right? If Nike comes out and swooshes no longer and it's something else, that's detrimental, right? How do you stepwise it in a way that's meaningful? So it's really around the principles of brand building and keeping it consistent in a way that's meaningful over time.

Jess Gaedeke (09:49)
Yeah, well, I imagine you had some uncomfortable conversations along that path because design is such a personal thing and everyone has an opinion about design. What were some of the barriers that you faced as you were trying to get people to slow down and maybe time out here?

Marat Fleytlikh (10:04)
For sure. And not the easiest conversations. think the ones that were super, super far out probably got reined in. But there were still a few that made it into the testing of like, hey, I hear you, but can we? And throwing another cell in isn't always a deal breaker. So you put it in there and it underperforms. You at least have some of the why on why it underperformed. So it's not easy, but I think being honest is why we're here. If we were just, yeah, no, no problem. I hear you. I'm just a speed bump. Let's keep.

moving forward, I think it sure changes the whole process of, you know, what's best for the brand at the end of the day, right? I'm not here because insight said so. It's really bring that voice to the consumer like, hey, going from yellow to orange is going to be detrimental because now consumers can't find you on shelf. Are we okay with that risk? And sometimes when you put it in that frame of can you lose X percent of the business? know, did you say 2 % of the business? I can't lose that.

Jess Gaedeke (10:55)
Yeah, are you signing up for that?

Yeah,

Marat Fleytlikh (11:01)
100%. You gotta have those kind

Jess Gaedeke (11:01)
right. Right. And then what is the upside? So even if you do, you know, miss some consumers or you potentially alienate, is that potential upside significant enough? So, so important to balance. And some categories, you know, design is the innovation lever. I mean, that's, that's charred pasta sauce. I mean, that's, it's not really a category that's seen a ton of innovation in the past decade. And so that's the way to stay fresh, the way to stay new. ⁓ So

Marat Fleytlikh (11:27)
Yeah.

Jess Gaedeke (11:28)
I guess I'm curious, what's one piece of advice you might give insights professionals that are in that same situation where they're hearing perhaps from, you know, the brand team or others in leadership, like, hey, we should really, you know, we should update this brand. And that's where we should start. What would be your best advice?

Marat Fleytlikh (11:42)
Yeah.

From previous conversations I've had, it's really, how do we continue to be the challenger brand even if we're not? Who's going to come in and disrupt us? Let's think like them. It could be war gaming, but it really is, if somebody was going to throw curveball into this category, what would they do? Should we protest them? And then you're step-wising into a new design or a new fan factor that you weren't forced to do because a new entrant came in and disrupted you, right?

Being a slow mover in a category that you lead is a tough spot to be. I think Chobani, right, of like the pendulum continually swinging of they came in and brought matte packaging to yogurt, which was unheard of. Everything was flashy and fruity and colorful. And as that kind of dwindled, they flipped it. And as everybody became matte, they said, I'm going to be shiny. So it's this constant running away of like, I don't want to be like them. There's a there there, right? And how do you do that to yourself in a meaningful way over time?

versus having to do it overnight. I think that's the biggest thing. Overnight design shifts. Sometimes they blow up in your face. Tropicana, that's a tough one, right? If they're low changing, there's a willingness to go on that journey. Overnight band-aid approach, it's tough with consumers. They're really fond of some of their brands that they've had sometimes for a lifetime, right? It's a brand that's been passed on to me from my grandma. To do that overnight, that's a lot.

Jess Gaedeke (13:02)
Yeah,

that's really good advice. Any other takeaway from that Classico experience that you want to share?

Marat Fleytlikh (13:07)
Be part of process. Like sometimes you're in meetings like, hey, let me join the design conversation with the art directors. I could bring in the consumer voice differently, or I've got work that you're looking for. Let me go find it. Don't feel like insights doesn't belong there. And it's less about insights. We're strategists. We're part of that team meaningfully. Be involved. Roll up your sleeves. You know, not saying you have to give art design, but react to it and say, hey, that's interesting, but, or.

Hey, I've got something that could support that. Let me get the.

Jess Gaedeke (13:36)
I love that advice. Thank you for sharing that story. We're going to turn now, Murat, to you as a thought leader, which you certainly are. I love to see your voice out there in our industry sharing your perspective. And one of the things that we were chatting about is the evolving importance of knowledge management. And I imagine that technology is only accelerating our ability to look at lots of different solutions. I'm curious, what's some of the role that you see knowledge management playing within the insights world?

Marat Fleytlikh (14:04)
It was disruptive, right? Not that I came from a file cabinet position almost 15 plus 20 years ago, but it was a lot of it, right? I had files on my desk and now that is no longer. The however is now I have my own files on my desktop and you can't get to a rival teams. I get hit by the perveral bus. What happens? So this aspect of knowledge management, be it SharePoint or otherwise.

in one location that can be leveraged is amazing. The treasure trove of information that we sit on, be it from last year, be it from 20 years ago, that can be referenced via generative AI or otherwise, but saying go look on page seven, go look on this clip at marker minute five and six seconds, here's a transcript. It changes my flows. Before it was,

Yeah, give me a day, give me a couple. Back in the day, give me a week. I think it's somewhere. I don't know. The old lead had a different filing structure. I don't know where it is. I could have everything in one folder and the database can reference it meaningfully and give me a synopsis. That's next level. Some of the V2 of it that I've seen coming in, this is Lucy I as far as vendors concerned.

Jess Gaedeke (15:07)
you

Marat Fleytlikh (15:23)
you can ask questions of your document. What? Right? Not only did it come up as a document potentially, but now you could actually go further. So it's pretty impressive. I think with Gen.ai becoming more part of our workflows on top of that, it's game changing. It's able to take your different bits of information and put a different spin on it that might have taken you weeks, if not ever. Like you might not even know we have FileX out there.

put a different take on it for you to react, it's game changing.

Jess Gaedeke (15:53)
Yeah. Well, I think too, one of the things that you had shared is it can save you from asking the same question over and over again. I mean, how many times does that happen where there's maybe some turnover within insights teams or brand teams and all of a sudden you're asking the same glass versus plastic question that's probably been asked and answered. It feels like a courtroom objection. It's been asked and answered several times. Do you have any things like that where you've sort of unearthed something that was surprising or really saved you from investing where you didn't need to?

Marat Fleytlikh (16:22)
100%. And glass and plastic is the perfect way of thinking of it. It was my first question that I asked the system once we got it up and running. So it was still a beta test. And I had a question from my marketing team come up about if vinegar could be in plastic or glass bottles. I consumer side of reference. And I'm like, let's see what the system has. It only has like, I don't know, 60 files. It's not a lot in there. It's still kind of referencing. What can it do? And that was the first thing that popped up.

And it was work that was done maybe not even six months before I got there. I didn't know it'd been done. That person that was on the team was no longer with the company. So that work was kind of in the ether. And here it is, not only are we not commissioning X thousand dollar project, but I've got an answer. That's like, look on page six, it says the risk is low. It's actually probably preferred because now as moms are looking around this vinegar, the risk of breakage at home.

reduces significantly because it's a plastic bottle. And yes, the glass is inequity. It's not that distinctive versus just having the Heinz vinegar right on a pack. So again, game changing of could I have spent that money and ran that research? Sure. Taken time, taken money. No. Fingertips. Answered in a second.

Jess Gaedeke (17:35)
And the intangible there is you are a hero in that moment to be able to give that answer. So there's some real benefits to making you smarter,

Marat Fleytlikh (17:42)
In the insights community, sure. In the marketing community, less so. They're like, good for you. Thank you for the answer. And here's another question here. Yeah, that's super.

Jess Gaedeke (17:49)
Next. Yeah. Well, all right. I was

trying. I was trying to be super optimistic on that one, but okay. So Murat, what's your, I'm going to ask you this question twice if it's okay. I'd love to know your hot take on the future of the food industry because you operate in a segment where there's a lot going on. So I'd love to know your hot take on the food industry and then your hot take on the future of the insights industry.

Marat Fleytlikh (18:13)
Ooh, I love it. Yes. So food industry, think transparency is going to become even bigger than it is today. It could be, you know, what plant was it made in, which state, which worker, et cetera. But I think knowing how it's handled, not only from like a safety standpoint of, you know, not having any pathogens, but really what's in it? Is there, is there something that might be adversely impacting my life?

I think consumers are getting smarter by the day, not only through QR codes and just general research, but I think the industry itself is evolving of saying transparency is the future and let me be as open as possible because there is no dark room that some shady stuff is happening. You want to tour my planet? You can. You want to go to my farm? You can. Because if we don't have transparency, there's a lot of just general trust issues that have happened over the years that people question what they're eating. And they're really...

pushing on brands to do it better, do it right.

Jess Gaedeke (19:09)
Yeah, well, that's a good place for to, you know, for Perdue to continue to take a leadership role and, you know, own that messaging. It's just so important to consumers. I don't know if you'll have a similar answer, honestly, if I ask you about insights, because man, transparency and quality is kind of a hot topic, but I don't know what your hot take is.

Marat Fleytlikh (19:26)
It's a hot topic. This isn't the hot take, but it's top of mind of just like synthetic panels and, you know, talking to my modelers from back in the day, it's only as good as what you give it, but what you give it is probably what it's giving you back. I think it varies on a conjoint standpoint, but creating synthetic consumers, we've got a ways to go. It's early phases. I love the idea. I don't know that it's perfect just yet, but you know, it's something that's going to disrupt. But I think

The bigger thing is probably connected to it is AI driven insights and strategy building. The hot take, I really think it's a huge disruptor. We're living in it obviously in a moment, but fast forward, I don't know, 40, 50 % of our jobs are going to go away. It's going to be, I don't need ex-analysts. I don't need ex-program managers or research managers. A lot of it could be done via prompts or done.

on the fly through AI, it's already happening with AI qual. Is it amazing? No, right? Like there's still a lot to be desired as far as non-verbals and going a little deeper, but seeing V1 be pretty dang good, where it can give you a discussion guide with three prompts, that's scary. So I think being a young whippersnapper 20 plus years ago, how are we going to get those folks entrenched in insights in a way that's meaningful because some of those jobs are...

in essence, getting eliminated, right? I don't need you to go scour information. That's happening in moment. So how will insights professionals kind of traverse getting here in five years, in 10 years? That keeps me up at night, right? Of how do you pay forward and get enough folks, not only appreciative in insights, but like wanting to use, to kind of go into that field and be professionals in that, I think. You know, get those young people with it, but.

Yeah, it's a scary time, but I think you've got to lean in and do your best with what you got.

Jess Gaedeke (21:19)
Yeah.

Well, sometimes that's all we can do. And so we'll make it make it work for us as much as we can. We're going to go to the final dig, Mara. This is all about you as a person, as a consumer even. So feel free to play that role here. What's the last product or service that you bought on impulse?

Marat Fleytlikh (21:34)
Ooh, see, good question. I'm using my tactics from before. Gosh, let me do a quick think on this. Because I'm an insight, I research everything sometimes to the nth degree where you're like, I don't even want to buy that anymore at this point. Gosh, great question. I think it was like food stuff. Like there was a Cheerios veggie singles pack we bought them for the kiddos. But I was like, I kind of want to try that. That sounds delicious.

Jess Gaedeke (21:36)
Hahaha

Yeah.

Marat Fleytlikh (22:00)
and it's hidden

veggies, that's a plus. I think I'm a sucker for food-related innovation, just leaning in, because it's different. And the barrier and dentistry is fairly low versus like, let me go buy a new car tomorrow, sight unseen. But yeah, I'm a sucker for food innovation.

Jess Gaedeke (22:15)
Yeah, well, that's the reason, you know, it's appealing to me. So I love it. And then the proofs in the pudding, which ones do you repeat purchase, as you know, so not always. Is there a category or a brand where you could rationalize any price point for it? You just have to have it in your life.

Marat Fleytlikh (22:24)
100%.

Ooh, good one as well. So Ralph Lauren, be it a polo shirt or otherwise, has been kind of embedded in my fashion since as a kid where coming up in America of the late 80s, early 90s, I did not have money. My parents, you we were immigrants. So I got to live through this Americanized vision by carrying it. And as a young adult, being able to buy some of those

Jess Gaedeke (22:51)
Yeah.

Marat Fleytlikh (22:55)
things of like, just, I love it. And I've got a closet full of nonsense, as you can tell. But there's something about Ralph and kind of even his backstory and kind of its impact on fashion that I, yeah, you give me something like, I could justify that.

Jess Gaedeke (23:13)
Yeah, you could justify it. See, I thought you were going to say post-its. I thought that's where you're going to go with that. I get to see the stash. yeah. OK. Yes. Yes.

Marat Fleytlikh (23:18)
Wait a minute, wait a minute.

Always on deck, always on deck.

So that's a fair number two. That's a fair number two.

Jess Gaedeke (23:27)
Yeah,

okay, close second, got it. So brands have distinct personalities. We know this and we've talked about it as it relates to Classico. What's a brand that you would date and a brand that you would marry and it's up to you, they don't have to be the same brand.

Marat Fleytlikh (23:42)
Oh, hot takes here, I like it. Gosh, I'd marry Cartier. Also another one of those timeless classics that have been part of my life in one way or another, but like just looking at vintage ads, be it the 20s, the 40s, it doesn't matter, it was just like timeless. And in a way that a ring bought then and worn today, you would never know the difference. Is it vintage or not? So there's something.

That's just, it screams subtle, but if you know, you know type of vibe.

Jess Gaedeke (24:14)
Yeah, yeah.

Marat Fleytlikh (24:15)
Date, oof. I'm gonna go with Apple. It's like the new outfit. Like there's always something new coming. I've been a sucker for getting a new iPhone every year. Part of it is innovation driven. Part of it is just really, I don't know. The subtleties that are evolving via the camera or just the design.

Jess Gaedeke (24:19)
Mm-hmm.

Marat Fleytlikh (24:36)
really drawn to it where I've just become the minion of like, is it September yet? ⁓ yes, that's my new phone coming.

Jess Gaedeke (24:40)
Right,

Yeah, yeah, always keeps it fresh. That's a good thing to date. Absolutely. Well, finally, gosh, I don't know how you're going to answer this because it feels like it could be an infinite list of things, but what keeps you inspired at work?

Marat Fleytlikh (24:54)
just general curiosity, right? Be it chicken related, industry related, just human related. think wanting to define new things and deliver them, there's a sense of gratification of like, there's a new finding, check this out. Like it makes me feel good, right? Like when it changes an implication actually creates an innovation or something else, it's even that much more rewarding, but bringing it to the forefront of saying, Hey,

We're in our bubble and here's where consumers are. Let's meet them where they are. It's super satisfying and sub genres of random things. again, I'm a nerd for it. My YouTube scroll makes no sense, but I love all of it. I'm like, do I live in a tiny house and I know how to put irrigation in my garden? Sure. Why do I have either? I don't know. But here I am of like, what are these sub genres of people and what's driving them? It definitely fills my cup for sure.

Jess Gaedeke (25:44)
Yeah.

Well, you gave me an idea for my next icebreaker impromptu question, which is about search history. So thank you for that. And then also quick comment on the, you know, the the the fashion use the word nonsense. And I think that that's absolutely not true. It's on point. It's a vibe. It delivers the message. So thank you. I'm here for it. And speaking of being here for it, thank you so much for joining me, taking some time to share your wisdom. This is a great conversation and we appreciate you.

Marat Fleytlikh (25:51)
Yeah.

Now, likewise, this has been amazing. I appreciate you right back. So this has been fun. I've always appreciated the vibe from the company and what you guys do. So this is like a cherry on top of having this amazing conversation with you.