Jess Gaedeke (00:00)
everybody. Welcome to the Dig In podcast. I am thrilled to be joined today by a really dynamic duo. And this is my first time interviewing a duo. So ladies, I'm very excited about this. I am joined today by two leaders at CIBC. We have Erin Cohen, Senior Director, Consumer Insights and Intelligence, and Rachel Vares, Director of Brand Marketing, Advertising and Content. Ladies, welcome and thank you so much for being here.

Rachel (00:25)
Thank you for having us.

Erin Cohen (00:25)
Thanks for having us.

Jess Gaedeke (00:27)
Yeah,

So I'm going to throw out an impromptu question to get us going.

If you could switch places with any fictional character for a day, who would that be

Rachel (00:35)
of me wants to do a throwback to like Harry Potter and be at like a wizarding school just because it sounds so fantastical but then they were always being killed so perhaps maybe when none of the trio were there and I could enjoy it as a safe environment

Jess Gaedeke (00:58)
Okay,

I like it. You create your own world. I like it. Erin, how about you?

Erin Cohen (01:02)
So mine is something that's very recent in pop culture. I would probably want to be Belly from the summer I turned pretty. I love my husband very much, but I also think Conrad is very cute. And sometimes I just want to go back to a time in my 20s where I can explore Europe and have all those adventures. So I got to live by curiosity through her watching that season, the last season.

Jess Gaedeke (01:16)
See you on around fan. Okay.

I love that.

Yeah, my daughter who's turning 16, she's obsessed and I was watching it with her and I just had to explain at the end like just so know, you can marry someone that you didn't grow up with. Like there's people outside of your sphere that are totally candidates,

Erin Cohen (01:38)
Yes.

Jess Gaedeke (01:43)
still a fun

What flavor of ice cream best describes your personality? Erin.

Erin Cohen (01:48)
maybe mint chocolate chip because it's a bit of a palate cleanser and hopefully lets you taste things in a different way, but it's also sweet with the chocolate.

Jess Gaedeke (01:57)
Nice, good answer. gosh, sounds like you had that one at the ready. love it. Rachel, how about you?

Erin Cohen (02:01)
No!

Rachel (02:04)
Okay, so it's kind of funny because the first one that came to mind for me was also mint chocolate chip, but for very, very different

Jess Gaedeke (02:09)
Okay.

Erin Cohen (02:12)
Yes.

Rachel (02:14)
I chose it because it is a little bit unconventional. So it's not a vanilla or a chocolate, but it's still, let's say, pretty safe. So, you know, it is still something that tends to be liked by a lot of people. It's not kind of that crazy out there, like super loud.

obnoxious like kind of flavor.

Jess Gaedeke (02:33)
That makes a lot of sense. And I actually think that's a great foundation for the conversation we're going to have today because it's all about collaboration between two leaders. And so I'd love for you guys to introduce yourself, talk a little bit about your background and your current role at CIBC. So Erin, we'll start with you.

Erin Cohen (02:49)
so I have been in insights for 20 years, always doing research for food. So I've been in the QSR and CPG space. so Fi is really new to me. My team oversees all the research for CIBC and simply from the white space ideation to product development to creative testing.

do a lot of work on how consumers are feeling, what's the sentiment

inspire that consumer empathy within the organization as

I love CIBC so

so grateful to be working with people like Rachel. I see it's a client-led, people-led organization and I see

live their values every day, which is so amazing.

And I think I had the misconception, very wrong misconception that financial services would be boring and it is completely the opposite. I love the fact that

learning about people's lives, their

future, and there's so much richness to that. And there's a lot of responsibility that comes with that. And I really feel that in my work.

Jess Gaedeke (03:58)
Yeah, that's so fulfilling. love that. Rachel, how about your background and your role today?

Rachel (04:03)
Yeah, so I've been in sort of

adjacent related industries for about over 15 years.

I previously worked only in advertising. So prior to joining to CIBC, I was always on the quote unquote agency side.

I worked across a number of different small and larger shops, both here in Toronto, where I'm currently based and sort of overseas in London.

I joined CIBC about four and a half years ago.

So it was to support initially with the brand relaunch

took place.

then I've been working to drive brand consideration, drive brand love ever since. And I think, you know, similar to Erin, I too had some misconceptions about what it would be like to work at a bank. I joined on contract initially purely so that I wouldn't be committed in case I hated it.

here I am four and a half years later.

much so loving it and loving all the unique opportunities that it brings.

Jess Gaedeke (04:58)
Okay, well, those backgrounds and where you guys are today is a great foundation because we're gonna dig in. We

for our listeners to be inspired by hearing from other leaders and one of the best ways to inspire is to tell a story. And you too have a story about a really strong collaboration between insights and marketing to develop a

very compelling campaign that just

So really exciting stuff. I'd love for you guys to start at the beginning. What was the original inspiration for this campaign and some of maybe the foundational insights that really you drew upon?

Erin Cohen (05:30)
So

brand marketing and insights always work really closely together to keep a pulse on how Canadians are feeling, what are the tensions that are in their lives to inspire really relevant and compelling messaging that as Rachel said is going to drive brand consideration.

We've been really looking at consumer sentiment over the past year. We've been doing a lot of focus groups and we heard a lot of really interesting dynamics coming from Canadians

helped inspire this campaign. So we know how uncertain things have been for Canadians over the past couple of years and that's impacting

the way that they're feeling about their finances. They're worried about their financial future. And that's across no matter how much money you have. Really everyone is worried about their future.

then we saw, okay, so they're worried, they're concerned, yet they're not going to their financial institutions for advice. Instead, what they're doing is they're going online. They're talking to their friends and family. They're going to financial influencers who,

might be right.

but they might not be right.

even if they are right, the advice isn't personalized to that individual and their unique ambitions and their unique goals. And then we also heard there's just so much information out there in the world right now

how to manage your finances. And Canadians are left with a little bit of...

lack of understanding of who to trust and who to go to when it comes to financial advice, which they really need right now when things are so uncertain. And so that kind of inspired an interesting story, I think, for the brand team to tell.

Jess Gaedeke (07:14)
Yeah. So based on that foundation, and man, can just really, we can empathize, right, with consumers when you talk about that reality. So how did you go about developing the campaign and what were some of the insights that you sort of picked up on along the way?

Rachel (07:27)
Yeah, I can build on that a bit. So I think

Erin kind of mentioned, this notion of uncertainty really led us to this kind of tension point that the idea of, we like to to it as sort of DIY money. So the idea of doing it yourself feels very empowering. And as Erin mentioned, there is so much information out there. So you should feel confident to be able to go and sort of find

information for yourself or for your needs or your current sort of life stage,

as mentioned the the confusion and sort of the mental overload that comes with that is very very real and so we wanted to sort of show the pivot. We wanted to dramatize the value of having someone sort of by your side. Money is very important, money is very critical and when the stakes are high

when you're thinking about your money and all the things that go with it,

you should want, and you need an expert in your corner to sort of help you. And so we took this very powerful idea about DIY uncertainty and we translated it into the notion of doing it together. So having someone by your side and having someone that's going to understand you and what's important to you and be

sort of support

in that journey. And that really sort of led us down the path of wanting to lean into real client

this idea of exploring sort of their unique challenges, their unique journeys,

the support that they achieved along the way. And this notion of having sort of an unfiltered client story

is one that we

would really resonate with Canadians, would get them to take notice, but also would allow them to kind of relate and put themselves in someone else's shoes. So it was an interesting exploration and one we've been very excited about.

Erin Cohen (09:14)
I think that the real people also was key to addressing attention that I talked about earlier. This idea of people are worried, people are so uncertain, but they're not going to their financial institution for advice. And it's because for many Canadians, they sometimes question their financial institutions of are they there just

But that's why it was so important to bring forward these real stories of real clients, real advisors who help them realize their potential and achieve their ambition.

Jess Gaedeke (09:46)
So I love this.

foundation of the authentic stories and you know in the the campaign we see some of these stories come to life so I guess could you guys share a couple of those those examples and also like how you how you found those how did you find these like dreams that people have?

Rachel (10:03)
Yeah, so

was

journey to find

just stories in general, but I think the right stories. That was a very

sort of challenge.

But so

the idea of finding sort of real clients

had real relationships with CIBC and who had a real ambition that they were looking to achieve.

approached it first from an inward standpoint.

leveraged our own employees, our own

ask people in our network if they were aware of any great stories that they had to share that they wanted to bring forwards. Understandably slow, can

be sort of a challenge. People don't always want to kind of divulge and share that kind of information. So what we actually did is we went outward and we put out a full nationwide sort of casting request, if you will. We invited

existing CIBC clients to share their stories with us in an online sort of forum. And from there we were able to find this amazing story of an individual who has been passionate about Orca whales their entire life.

it dovetailed quite nicely with their own professional ambitions of being a videographer and a filmmaker of sorts.

so they had an advisor that actually helped them translate that into a plan to get them to Norway where they filmed Orcas in the Wild as part of both of their personal ambition and sort of a professional ambition.

Jess Gaedeke (11:28)
Well, that cinematography is so cool too. You feel like you're like experiencing it right there with your CIBC

Well, it's not easy to develop a great campaign. So I'd love to hear about what are some of the challenges or where you had to kind of pivot? Where did things go not quite right?

Rachel (11:43)
I'll jump in first, I'm sure, Erin, you have some additional builds. think

kind of mentioned this, but finding the right story, like we always knew that was going to be a challenge or a barrier to kind of overcome. Don't think we really realize how difficult it would actually be. It was a much bigger sort of hurdle than we had anticipated.

I say that, I mean that we had...

a wonderful outpouring support of people sharing their stories and wanting to tell us about their journeys with CIBC and the support that they had received and the very wonderful ambitions that they had either realized or were in the process of realizing. And I think that was amazing to see and

really warmed our hearts because

really demonstrated to us firsthand

wonderful

advisors are in supporting Canadians.

have a story be TV ready, it's gotta meet a number of different criteria.

a story that was gonna be really impactful and powerful to be able to stand out, to get people to take notice. We also wanted a story that was able

dramatize the right type of relationship.

At the end of the day, any support that you receive from an advisor is

absolutely wonderful.

there are aspects of a story that we want to be able to dramatize more so than others.

sandbox, if you will, became significantly smaller. And as a result, not a lot of stories ended up checking all of the boxes for us. And so while we had a great outpouring support from the beginning, we were left...

not perhaps we've filtered through and weren't really left with a huge set to kind of to choose from.

then understandably, so we wanna make sure that those stories, while we feel are right for advertising, that internally our leaders and our teams also feel as excited about those. Because obviously coming from the perspective of marketing, we sometimes have a different point of view than some of our leaders at the top.

you know, that's great. We're sharing different perspectives, but we also want to make sure

stories that we're translating, they feel as excited as we are. So there was sort of an external and an internal challenge, I think, to overcome and I'm sure others that Erin will kind of touch on.

Erin Cohen (13:57)
I think thinking from an insight standpoint, when we were testing the creative and even thinking about just the high level idea, first we wanted to make sure it was a unique story that captured people's attention, but it was still relevant and approachable. And I think they found that right balance. mean, me personally, I don't think I'm gonna be filming orca whales anytime soon,

I still can relate to someone having a unique ambition, right? And doing what they need to do to achieve that. And then what's also we're looking for is making sure we're doing all those technical things within the ad to drive brand links. So people associate it with us, make sure that the messaging is coming through, making sure that we have a really strong call to action. So it inspires Canadians to take action. And it's sometimes hard to integrate

those technical things

when we're trying to tell a real story. But I think that the brand team did it really well.

Jess Gaedeke (14:57)
I think it's a major challenge to do all the things you guys are describing, right? You want to have that emotional connection. You want to embody and,

sort of promote this experience of this true client is having in his life, but also give all the call to action, make sure that the brand messaging is hitting home. So it's a lot to accomplish. And I think that it was quite effective in doing so.

Erin Cohen (15:11)
Exactly.

Jess Gaedeke (15:18)
How will your team measure the success of the campaign? I know it's early days, but how will you say, yes, this was successful?

Rachel (15:25)
Yeah, mean, ultimately, we've kind of mentioned this a few times, you know, the biggest measure of success is really understanding its impact on our consideration and does this sort of drive that stereotypical purchase intent, if you will.

ultimately, we look at that and we also want to translate it back to advice conversation. So are people, whether they're coming through the door or booking a meeting online, are they actually taking action to engage with us in that first

to sort of fulfill their own ambitions.

at the high level, obviously, are going to be paramount to sort of determining success.

also through research and our ad tracking with our partners on Erin's

it's critical for us to look at sort of advertising effectiveness as well.

We kind of touched on this, but ability for our ads to break through, the ability for us to

get sort of the brand link back on it.

as well to have that message resonance. Those three are also going to be fundamental for us feeling that as a piece of communication was that also successful for us.

Erin Cohen (16:18)
Thank

Exactly. And

continue to learn from our research

optimize, which is what's so great about Rachel's team is that we're always looking to

to help us be better moving

One of the things that we also look at and we've seen, and I'm sure you've seen this

work as well, Jess is just the halo that brand has on all elements of our business. And so ultimately we are looking to drive

that high level consideration. We know by having that strong high level brand message, we are driving impact throughout the entire business, which we also look at.

Jess Gaedeke (17:02)
so important to understand the impact of that halo and just reinforce the brand's ethos

every communication. Yeah, well, well done. What's the biggest takeaway you have from this collaboration on this

I'll start with you.

Rachel (17:13)
Well, I would say from a collaboration standpoint, obviously, extremely value the team of our insights partners. I think that has been a

that we continue to take away.

But in terms of the communications, I think the idea of working with real people or telling these authentic stories, it's simultaneously easier and harder. So

aspects of it that

become a little bit of a no-brainer. You're not crafting a story. You are, you know, articulating someone's existing story. And in some ways that is simpler

you don't have control over that

likewise, as Erin kind of touched on, it becomes a lot harder because we're still fitting it to the construct of advertising and we still need it to communicate and do the things that typical ads would do for us, but we don't have the same type of control in that

And so the balancing

be challenging at times. So yeah, it's easier and it's harder.

Jess Gaedeke (18:10)
Well said. Erin, what about you?

Erin Cohen (18:12)
What I learned, especially being in this industry, is it's so important for us to keep a pulse on how Canadians are feeling. It's changing so quickly. I mean, I've been in research for 20 years and I haven't seen sentiment

behaviors evolve this quickly. So it's something that my team has continually tapped into. And then also just getting deeper into the insights and not taking them at face value.

because I mean, we can look at the insights right now and say, ⁓ people love DIY. Like that's great. Let's lean into that. And if people do want to do DIY, that's amazing. Because there is, think Rachel said, there's an empowerment to it. And there are some people who really want to do that and enjoy that. But as we got deeper into it, we saw the...

For some consumers, they're doing DIY not because they're confident, it's actually because they're lacking confidence. And they're scared to go talk to someone at an FI because they feel like they're going to be judged. And so had we not gotten deeper and deeper and deeper, I don't think we would have gotten to the place where we ended up with, which I think was completely the right insight for this time and moment.

Jess Gaedeke (19:26)
so important to go those next levels deeper Erin. I totally agree because once you start to unpack the whys behind the behavior, you start to understand those, you know, unsurfaced emotions or anxieties, which is where brands can meet consumers where they are when you understand those tensions.

on an excellent campaign, a fabulous collaboration.

I'd love to turn to another kind of hot topic that's going on across our clients, not just in FI, but really across the board. And that is how to keep track of the generational shifts and how in the world to appeal to Gen Z. Like they just seem like this cohort that are hard to

So I'd love for you guys to just talk a little bit about some of the nuances that you've observed or that you pay attention to when it comes to Gen Z within the world of financial investment banking.

etc.

Rachel (20:16)
I'm happy to jump in on that

Erin Cohen (20:17)
I'm

Rachel (20:18)
think now more than ever, people's journeys are so

Whether it's changes in society, cultural trends, economic impact, they are all affecting the types of ambitions that people are going after and very much so applicable to Gen Z.

And so while traditional ambitions are props still universally important, whether that's maybe owning a home, for

how they go after them, when they go after them is drastically different than generations of past. And so while it can be challenging to specifically go after that

of Gen Zs, if you will,

know, demonstrating an understanding that nobody's two ambitions are the same, nobody's two journeys are the same, and what's important is having kind of the right people in your corner that get you,

think is what allows us, or hopefully will allow us, to communicate across the board and sort of connect with the different audiences.

Erin Cohen (21:27)
I mean, I would completely agree with Rachel in that life isn't so linear anymore. So it's not, I get married, I buy a house, I have a kid and for so many Gen Z, mean, buying a home is out of reach, right? And I think some of them have come to terms with that. Maybe that's not gonna happen for me and maybe that doesn't even equal success anymore. And they're placing priorities on their wellbeing, their mental health.

having experiences, having moments. And

insights perspective and from a marketing perspective, it's how do we celebrate those non-traditional ambitions? And

don't want to be doing those cookie cutter bank ads where we're showing those traditional moments because that's not going to.

resonate with Gen Z. Also too, we see because of that, they're going to want a different relationship with their bank. And so they're learning to bank in a different way than their parents did. And so we need to prepare ourselves to be ready for their future as their lives evolve.

Jess Gaedeke (22:33)
And it's so interesting because I think that we have a tendency to try to say, ⁓ Gen Z as if it's one collective understanding of what Gen Z is. But the nuance of Gen Z is it's so not homogenous. mean, it's like every individual. That's kind of the point is that they are such an individual. And so I find that to be a really cool opportunity and also understanding how some of the milestones are changing. you know, in our household, all my daughter can talk about is getting her driver's license next month. There are so many people that don't even

that milestone. don't want to get their driver's license. And so you think about the impacts of that type of shift, not just on, you know, the auto industry or the car insurance industry, but on so many other things. If people are not going through that would have been a very traditional milestone in the past. It's shifting so many things. So I just think that the ripple effects, I find it to be fascinating. I try to look at it as an opportunity for brands versus a challenge, but I know it could probably sometimes feel kind of overwhelming to folks that are trying to appeal to such

a unique group of people that just happen to share the same age range. You know what mean?

Rachel (23:38)
No, that's very, very true. And I think to your point, it's a bit of a how do you demonstrate an understanding of differences and appreciation for differences to allow you to resonate without necessarily having to immediately communicate the exact aspects of the life or the milestones, right? If you can sit at that umbrella level and show your value of someone that understands.

the nuances of each person and their journey

can hopefully speak volumes.

Jess Gaedeke (24:08)
Yeah.

Well, your partnership really demonstrates a very strong collaboration that I think a lot of your industry peers are kind of jealous. Okay. So it's not that brand marketing insights are at odds, but we don't always see this level of collaboration. So I'd love for you to just give us some tips, tricks, advice for your peers who would love to have the same relationship with their

Erin Cohen (24:32)
So first of all, I just feel so lucky to be working with such incredible marketers who have such an appreciation for insights. It doesn't always happen, as you said, that they come to us even just to share briefs

where they are on their work to make sure that the consumer perspective is integrated.

we're just so lucky to have that. And then

For me, first of all, I'm not a marketer. I'm very much a researcher, but I am an appreciator of marketing. I'm a student of marketing. And I understand that marketing is an art and science. And so I think many times researchers come into the conversation with marketers and they say, well, this is what the results say, and this is what we have to do. And it's very black and white and now let's move forward.

I try to demonstrate that I understand that there's gray

it's not my job to be a creative killer. It's my job to help make the work even better. The work is amazing, but even better with that consumer perspective and work with them to be able to optimize their

to get it to be the best it can be.

Rachel (25:49)
mean, my sort of my take on that would be that it's really important to recognize the value of the team around you. think like Erin kind of mentioned, we are lucky in that I think across marketing and insights, there is an understanding and appreciation for the value and the expertise that people have.

really, ⁓

Don't be afraid to engage your partners early in projects or early on in processes. The beauty of people is that they see things differently than you and they come with

experiences and different expertise that shine a light in a different way sometimes on whether it be a challenge or the project as a whole. So I know from my point of view, it's like whether it's an established business partner or whether it's like your colleague, like...

Use them as a sounding board. Don't be afraid to bounce things off of them. And as Erin kind of mentioned, especially when it comes to insights, it is a combination of art and science. And so having that dialogue is really, important to uncover the right mix or the right path forward.

Jess Gaedeke (26:54)
Well, I would just love to acknowledge that Erin when I reached out to you to be on the podcast, you said, can I bring my brand marketing partner because we have this great story, but I don't want to tell it on my own. And I think that's just a personification of what you guys are talking about. Really

Erin Cohen (27:00)
Yes.

Rachel (27:01)
Thank

Jess Gaedeke (27:08)
wanting to amplify what your partners are doing. So

just getting good vibes, guys. I love this. OK.

Erin Cohen (27:13)
S.

Rachel (27:14)
I

love this.

Jess Gaedeke (27:15)
We're going to go into the final dig. is all about you as people. So feel free to take off the CIBC hat for a moment if you wish.

Erin Cohen (27:21)
Okay.

Jess Gaedeke (27:22)
Okay. So what's the last product or service you bought on impulse? Erin, go.

Erin Cohen (27:25)
It was an Aritzia sweatsuit for my 11 year old daughter, which I can't believe how much I spent on it, but she wanted it so badly and it took me back to when I was a teenager and all I wanted was a juicy

and my mom wouldn't buy it for me. So it's like, I'm gonna be the mom that's gonna buy it for her.

Jess Gaedeke (27:45)
Good for you. Well done. You get mom awards. Rachel, how about you?

Rachel (27:50)
That's too funny. I struggle with that too. I feel like there's a number of things that I am able to rationalize buying from my children. I don't know that always extends to myself, but maybe I need to give myself that leniency. No, honestly on impulse, I just bought convenience products this morning. I was like, ooh, a pack of gum. And I was like, ooh, this flavor looks tasty. And I was like, why not? So not quite as

Erin Cohen (27:53)
Yeah.

Yes.

Rachel (28:15)
as Erin's purchases.

Erin Cohen (28:17)
I'm

Jess Gaedeke (28:17)
But you only live once, so get that gum. like it.

Rachel, you

kind of touched on this, so maybe it's about your kids, but what's a category or a brand or product that you could rationalize any price point for? You just really have to have in your life.

Rachel (28:30)
I honestly, like I'm a mom of two boys. So for me, I very much so value the idea of like gear and clothing being able to last through the season or last through the growth spurt so that my other child can have it. So I kind of justify the price point on like higher quality gear, whether it's, you know, our Canadian winter gear kind of thing, or it's, you know, puffer jackets for the fall or something like that. think

having higher quality there becomes super important because A, my kids are gonna destroy it if it's not, and B, if I can get more

kid's use out of it, then to me that's a huge win.

Jess Gaedeke (29:12)
Yeah, makes a lot of sense. Erin, what about you?

Erin Cohen (29:15)
sleepover camp for my kids. I can't believe how much money I spend on it. But at the same time, I know it's so good for them. It makes them so independent. They're making lifelong friends. It makes them stronger. And for the first time in 12 years, my husband and I went on a solo trip. went to Puerto Rico and that was just so special. And going back to the beginning of the conversation, like I just felt like I was in my 20s again.

Jess Gaedeke (29:36)
And you like? Yeah.

Erin Cohen (29:43)
exploring new places and so it was definitely worth the money.

Jess Gaedeke (29:48)
Totally worth it. Yeah. Well, those are good justifications guys. I love it. And we all know that brands have distinct personalities. So I'd love for you to share a brand that you would enjoy dating and a brand that you would prefer to marry. They don't have to be the same brand. That's totally your call.

Erin Cohen (29:51)
Mm-hmm.

Jess Gaedeke (30:02)
Erin, we'll start with you.

Erin Cohen (30:03)
So I would date Jenny Bird because, you know, chunky, fun jewelry of the moment, having fun. And then I would marry Mejuri Timeless jewelry that classy that I'm gonna have forever.

Jess Gaedeke (30:21)
Love it, great juxtaposition there. Rachel, how about you?

Rachel (30:24)
I'm only laughing because I feel like this is a throwback to Erin's commentary on the summer I turned pretty. the Jeremiah Conrad debate, I feel like I can relate those to both jewelry brands for you and your Conrad reference is very, so Mejuri So

Erin Cohen (30:30)
I'm ⁓

Jess Gaedeke (30:36)
you

Rachel (30:44)
know what? I struggle a lot with kind of this one.

I will say that a brand that I would probably marry going to the automotive sector would be Volkswagen. I love Volkswagen cars. I think I've only ever owned Volkswagen cars. No, that's a lie. I have owned some

I stand by them from a personality standpoint, from a security standpoint, everything. I don't know. You could tell me that they were the worst car in the world and I'm like, I love them. They're fine.

I definitely think that is

I would kind of marry.

a brand that I would date probably would be something in like the junk food category. So pick like a snack brand. Right now, my latest obsession is those nerds gummies. They're like fun, they're tangy, they're sweet. They're like, they're not super indulgent, which is kind of confusing, but they're not as indulgent as you think they are. And so I think that would be a good

Erin Cohen (31:29)
They're so good. Yes. ⁓

Rachel (31:42)
Maybe not a full on relationship date, but like a fling? ⁓

Erin Cohen (31:45)
Yeah.

Jess Gaedeke (31:47)
Yeah, yeah,

that sounds really right. like on point. And then who's an industry leader that you'd love to hear from on this podcast? Erin do you have someone in mind?

Erin Cohen (31:55)
I always think about Irene

She is a VP at Highliner.

worked with her really closely when I was at McDonald's, she was at McCain, and then I went to go work with her. She was my boss at Weston. She's just someone who started in Insights and just expanded and kept building on that. I think she's VP of marketing and commercialization.

I respect that so much and she just taught me so much about innovation work, of really finding that unmet need, finding that white space. And so

I don't think I'd be where I am without her. So I think she's someone great to talk to.

Jess Gaedeke (32:37)
Awesome, great suggestion. Rachel, how about you?

Rachel (32:40)
you know, I was, this might seem like I'm, it's a little self serving,

one of our past, leaders that we had at CIBC,

no longer with the company. she's retired. Esther Benzie, she was our VP.

I absolutely adored working, with her and working for her as a strong, I think not dissimilar to Erin, as a strong female leader. I really looked up.

to

as an individual who could, you know, A, have that high empathy and sort of connection with the people on her team, but had crazy sharp wit and ability to get straight to the heart of understanding the strategic intent behind something or really laser focusing in on sort of feedback and really also pushing you with challenging questions to kind of have you

reflect and sort of challenge yourself. So I think she's a great female business leader and a great female role model. And so

recommend her.

Jess Gaedeke (33:40)
Yeah, gosh.

Erin Cohen (33:40)
I've been

lucky enough to meet her. She's pretty amazing.

Jess Gaedeke (33:43)
Yeah, sounds like two people I simply have to meet. Thank you for sharing that. Okay, finally, what keeps you

inspired at work? You can tell that you guys are super energetic, love what you do. So how would you summarize what keeps you inspired? Erin?

Erin Cohen (33:56)
I mean, why I love Insight so much is telling stories and piecing all these bits of information to come up with something really compelling and that is going to be meaningful and drive the business. so participating in partnerships like this is really what motivates me where I see other people seeing the value of Insight. I see them integrating the consumer point of view, being really consumer led.

And that driving our business, I think is just what I love so much. And I'm so lucky to have at CIBC.

Jess Gaedeke (34:32)
That's great. Rachel, how about you?

Rachel (34:33)
From the beginning of my career, and it still holds true now, it's really about variety of work. And I've always found that whether it's advertising or marketing, have no two days are the same, no two months are the same, two quarters, two years, even when we are striving for consistency, which is something that Erin and I have been working really hard on as of late, even when we're striving consistency.

Every opportunity, every project is different. No two challenges are exactly the same. And so that variety keeps me energized and excited and inspired to kind of do work because it's always new and it's always interesting.

Jess Gaedeke (35:14)
Yeah, sounds dynamic. Well, I can tell why you guys are inspired, but also provide inspiration, which you did today. So thank you so much for joining me and telling the story of your collaboration. You're setting the bar high for the rest of us. So thank you so much, ladies, for joining.

Rachel (35:29)
Thank you.

Erin Cohen (35:29)
Thanks for having us.

Rachel (35:31)
Yeah, it's been a pleasure.