Ian: Hi, I'm Ian, co-founder of Dig Insights and president of Dig's innovation insights platform, Upsiide. Welcome to Dig In. Dig In is the place to stay up to date on what's happening in the world of innovation, research and technology, to find inspiration from today's business and innovation leaders, and to properly dig into hot topics that matter for consumer brands right now and when applicable, we'll bring our own research to that conversation.

Meagan: Welcome back to this week's episode of Dig In. Today I'm joined by Ruth Fittock from Simply Roasted crisps/chips. Ruth, how's it going?

Ruth: Great. Thank you for having me. It's really exciting to be here, having a nice chat.

Meagan: Yeah, I'm excited to chat to a fellow marketer. Ruth is the Marketing Director at Simply Roasted Crisps. Just for the benefit of the listeners, can you tell us a little bit about your background in marketing?

Ruth: Sure. So I started out in marketing 15 years ago, my first big job was working on the launch of Vitamin Water the UK. I was there for three years, focused mostly on experiential marketing and lots of sampling events, festivals, really fun stuff, basically. And then I moved over to popchips, which is another American brand launching in the UK, and I was there from pre-launch sales, I was an employee number two in the UK, right the way through to the sold KP snacks eight years later. So that was a really amazing experience for me because I was there at every single stage of the brand's lifecycle, kind of from the beginning when it was completely unknown and we were in the broom closet surrounded by a couple boxes of potato chips to it later went on to become the most successful bagged snack launch of the last decade. And I went from there, after a couple of maternity leaves, to a bit of consulting to where I am now and I have been for the last 18 months.

Meagan: Wow. It's so cool. I mean, the first time we chatted, I was so interested to hear about popchips because obviously that's a really well-known brand over here. So it's really cool that you've got to kind of see that entire process through. I guess that might lead onto my next question. You know what made you join Simply Roasted? I know in our previous conversation you talked about how you're sort of creating all the building blocks essentially for marketing there. Is that what excited you about being there? Like what was the reason for jumping ship?

Ruth: Yeah. So I should probably explain what Simply Roasted is. So it's crisps, you know, a bit like pop chips. It's better for you. But what's different is that it's a lot closer to a hand cooked kettle or Terrell's fried crisp; real potatoes or natural. We have 50% less saturated fat and fewer calories and serving, and we're able to create a crisp like that because we have a unique process where we roast instead of fry. And I guess that was mostly what excites me about it, that it's rare, and as a marketer you get to work on something that's genuinely innovative. So it's protected, there's nothing else like it. And also because I knew the category so well, I knew that this product was answering a genuine need of addressing a genuine gap in the market. So having something that looks, feels tastes like a traditional potato chips which people love...

Meagan: People love crisps. I mean, everyone loved our chips as we call them chat. But people in the UK especially love their crisps…

Ruth: I think crisps have got something like 93% household penetration in the UK. But yeah, you know, we all eat crisps and that's fine. But we probably know that we eat too many of them. So to have something that kind of, you know, is like your favorite but is better for you. It's a huge opportunity. And when you're working in marketing, it makes your life a lot easier if you're feeling a genuine gap in the market rather than trying to engineer something like that.

Meagan: So true. Yeah, I mean, I work in B2B marketing for software as a service. So, a different category, but it's always a lot easier to market something when you can be, when it's quite distinct, when the messages that you go to the market are significantly different than what all of your competitors are going to have.

Ruth: Yeah, and I think I had a conversation with someone recently about whether you can work in marketing for a brand that you don't like. Well, you don't. You're not a consumer yourself. And I think you can as long as you believe in the opportunity and what the product does. I mean, I love crisps, so that's not a problem for me.

Meagan: I am a crisp fan. Don't worry.

Ruth: But I also think Simply Roasted to me personally, it was sort of a perfect opportunity. So when I first joined the business, it was really just a name, the process and a piece of paper. And since then, the team has built a factory from it and we've created an entire brand from scratch. And popchips are amazing. But it was taking a brand that was already pretty successful in the US and then just adapting it to the UK, whereas this was taking all of my knowledge of the category and the consumer in everything I learned and then putting that into creating a new brand completely from scratch. And that was a real challenge, but sort of in a nice, safe space of the convenience of a consumer and a category understood really well.

Meagan: Yeah, I mean, I think that's a very modest way of of saying, you know, obviously it felt safe from a personal perspective, but it also probably felt safe for the people you're working with because, you know the category incredibly well, having kind of lived and breathed it for more than a decade. So that's good for you, but it's also really good for them.

Ruth: Yeah, I have a niche.

Meagan: You know you do. You have a crisp niche with a “better for you” sub-niche. So within that sub niche or within the “better for you category”, who is the consumer that you’re going after? And I guess, you know, based on your previous experience, we're talking about how you know the category so well, like, does that consumer differ from, say, who you were marketing to at popchips?

Ruth: Not really. I mean, I think we sort of touched on it already, you know, said everyone loves crisps, so on a very broad level it could be for everybody. Obviously, you need to be talking to someone who wants to be a bit healthier. Again, that's pretty broad. I'd say, I think the kind of the key difference from the popchips target, probably because we're a lot more similar to traditional Hankook chip crisps. It's broader and actually means that we can go a bit older as well. So there's a sort of more traditional audience who like their salted kettle brand chips and also we are 25% less sea salt. So we've got an interesting message for that group, we call them the “silver soldiers”, so they're slightly older, more self-conscious, because young people don't care about salt. So in fact, if you tell something someone's low insult, that's a bad thing. So that's fun because I've worked for brands for years that just target millennials. So to go to a different audience is always really interesting.
But yeah, I think our aspirations were to be broader and to be bigger. So, you know, we want to compete with brands like popchips, but we also want to compete with brands like Kettle. And we see ourselves as bridging the gap between the two so we can kind of win share from both sides of the market.

Meagan: That's really interesting. And I I think that's where a lot of brands are starting to go as the process for creating a lot of food is diversifying. I mean, I think we mentioned this last time, I was chatting to Olipop, their Business and category insights manager, and they're kind of doing something a little bit similar in the functional soda space. So it's definitely a cool place to play in. When it comes to marketing in the crisps category, how has that changed since your days at pop chips? I'm sure with eight years under your belt there, you saw a lot of things kind of take shape. But what do you think marketing in this category means today that it might not have meant previously?

Ruth: Well, I think the biggest thing by far is DTC. See, when I first started popchips, we barely had a website. It was very low down in the priority list, very basic. And even as recently as a couple of years ago, I just didn't think I was wrong. Sort of thought the status thing was going to be just a pandemic trend that was going to pass. Why would people be shopping from all these different places? Why wouldn't you just go to your grocery store? I think that's wrong. I think it's now become a behavior that people have gotten used to. Obviously, I'm not going to do it with every single thing, but for brands that you love going direct is now very easy. And with that, I think for me, the difference is between social and digital. So I guess when popchips’s Instagram wasn't even a thing, you know, that whole landscape has completely changed. At the beginning, the mistake I made was… I don't like social media as a person. I just don't like it. I love LinkedIn as a kind of social media, but I hate to use it. I'm not a user, I just don’t like it, and it took me a while to get my head out of the side and realize there's a difference between social and digital for a start and actually see all the opportunities and the
benefits of it. I mean, ironically, a lot of the reasons I like social are the reasons why it makes it a marketer's dream. Tracking, the lack of privacy.

Meagan: Totally. I mean, even just talking to friends and family, they avoid it. Just thinking of the way that they kind of mask their online behavior or their digital behavior. You know, you can be quite savvy about it these days. And as a marketer, I'm like, “Oh man”. But as a human…

Ruth: Yeah, I got to delete Facebook, but don't, because it's great for targeting people. Yeah. And I think for me, I'm learning a lot about DTC now. I just had a call this morning and was like “I just love this”. It's like investigating something new; you don't generally get marketing answers on what isn't working in real time. You know, you throw all these things out there as part marketing mix and then you never really know what's worked and you have all these levers that you can pull. And then there's also lots of other things going on.
Digital is different. You know, you do stuff, you just find out straight away, and that's great. So I think that's the biggest change, you know, it's just a different world and I've had to adapt to that kind of change, kind of get over my own prejudices of it and then get on with it.

Meagan: Yeah. And I guess just being comfortable with being uncomfortable, and knowing that everything continues to change, the channels that you need to use. And you know what marketing looks like now is probably quite different from what it'll look like ten years from now.

Ruth: And you know, you don't have to have a grasp of everything. You just need to bring in people who do. If you don't, I think it's the other thing.

Meagan: Yeah, 100%. So what does your team look like then, or what's the team that you want to build?

Ruth: So we're really small at the moment, you know, we're kind of just launching the brand. My marketing team is myself and then a marketing manager who is very digitally savvy, I'm learning a lot from her on that. But we also use freelancers and smaller agencies. But yeah, you know, bringing experts, they come in and do that job for us, and they're just really great at that only. Then we have someone else coming in to help with the website and just sort of leaning on that specialist support, using a lot of freelancers.
As the brand grows, the team will grow and I think we kind of will need… it always comes in a bit late where you just need that sort of administrative support, which I don’t have at the moment, you know, there's a lot of time making deliveries and things like that. So hopefully that will come. But yet trying to keep the team lean at this initial stage and bring in outside help as we need it.

Meagan: I think… I don't use “trend” in a bad way. I think there is a trend in a good way towards doing that, like bringing in subject matter experts who really know a specific thing really well. It's kind of like when you bring in, I don't know, an illustrator from a design perspective, like someone who knows something really, really well and can help with a specific problem. And then you can kind of move on as the business grows.

Ruth: I think it's something because especially with digital, because like you say, it changes all the time, the algorithms change all the time. You need someone who is completely on top of that. And so they need to be a specialist, you know, having a kind of general sort of marketing slash digital pass.
You know, it's very hard to do, they’re like two separate roles, really. So yeah, it's too much to expect of somebody to know the ins and outs of every single sort of digital platform…

Meagan: ...or to be able to optimize them on a regular basis, right? That's a whole job in and of itself. That's why I have agencies exactly who I love dearly. So, all right, if we take a step back, I guess, you know, we're talking about how things are going at Simply Roasted now. What are some valuable lessons that you carried over from your time at popchips to your current role at Simply Roasted?

Ruth: I mean, so much. I think probably one of the most useful things, it has been a real kind of guideline in the back of my head the whole time; it is probably the consumer and the attitudes to health that I saw just from days of sitting through focus groups. And yeah, I mean, that's a top tip. If you have the opportunity to sit in on the focus group, even if you don't want to sit in a windowless room for hours. Do it. Because even years later, having that kind of exposure to how people are is great. I think you kind of need to be there in real life to really get it. But a lot of assumptions I had to just go about totally debunked, understanding how people feel about health. And you know, yeah, time passes by. They think these things change deeply. And I think the biggest thing being how people don't actually feel guilty when they make bad food choices most of the time. So at popchips we had some really great witty lines that talked about guilt. We tested them and they just totally bombed. I think because, you know, often people have their own kind of quite elaborate debit, credit things going on in their head. So you might have a bag of chips. Then you go into the gym later or you've had a really good week. Now you're rewarding yourself. And it’s very nuanced. I'm telling someone “you should feel guilty about that”. This does not go down well because you might be like “I’ve earned that” or “I'm going to make up for later” or, you know, “just leave me alone”.

Meagan: I think about it as well, like, it's a totally different world now in terms of the way that people view food and nutrition and like low carb, low fat, low added sugar. You know, I remember when I was growing up, a huge trend was just everything as low calorie as humanly possible. Everything is low fat is humanly possible or low sugar or whatever. And now I feel like people want more opportunities to indulge in food without it being something bad. I don’t know if you're seeing that with your research.

Ruth: Yeah, I mean. You know, I think that, yeah, the category has moved on, but brands have been a bit slow to keep up with that. And I think that now, definitely. And maybe it's because coming through a pandemic and how we think about health has changed. So I think for a long time, you know, “better for you'' really was about weight loss, even though it was like, No, it's not anymore. It still was. You know, this all sort of strong, not skinny, still sort of about weight loss, really. There is now health. I think people are looking at it more holistically. It's about feeling good. It's about having energy. It's about longevity. It's about immunity and being well. And that is a really positive thing. I think, and I think “better for you” has been great for the whole time I’ve been in it, and I don't see any reason why that would change anything. I think it's getting more mainstream and it's actually broadening. But I think that's really positive that it's shifting from that like diet deprivation mentality to just, “wow, isn't it better to feel good?” And actually, we know if we eat better food, we feel good, feel good about ourselves. But also, you know, we have more energy. And that for me is, you know, is why I like working in this category. I think it's a positive thing. And listen, you can kind of help. People make slightly better decisions that are going to make them feel better in the long run, and that's that's good.

Meagan: Yeah, it's not a fully formed thought. So I don't know. But it takes me back to that bridging of the gap between, you know, the the crisps and the, you know, the popchips of the world or the kettle chips of the world and kind of where you guys are slotting yourselves in because you it doesn't have to be about “I'm going to have crisps and I'm going to feel really guilty”. I'm really going to indulge. So I'm only going to have crisps occasionally or it's like, “I'm going to eat something that doesn't have as great of a flavor profile. But I don't feel at all guilty because I know that it's really low calorie or low low salt or whatever it is”. It's kind of like removing that, yeah, removing that layer of feeling and just making it sort of a normalized snack.

Ruth: … without any kind of overstatement. It's a very difficult job trying to communicate that because obviously you can't overstate it because a lot of the time you're just impulsive, just picking stuff up. And you don't want to be told either that, “Oh, we're making this choice easy for you because you think I know this is not a choice to me, I've got much more important things going on in my life.”
But then at the same time, you know, there's little choices that you make in the day add up and kind of make you feel better when you know that you've kind of made a slightly better choice.
So yeah, it's you think… I remember when I first started at popchips, I thought, this is an absolute no brainer. You know, like crisps with less grams of fat, what's not to love and then actually as I got into it, I was like, “Oh no, this is quite tough” because people think as soon as you start talking about less fat, less calories, it's just not going to be tasty. And then I thought, you know, I'm a massive chocolate lover myself. Someone said to me, this chocolate bar tastes good and has half of the fat or preservatives, I wouldn't believe them. I wouldn't. I wouldn't pick that up.

Meagan: And actually, I mean, I'm speaking as a consumer, not a marketer here. But when I see things like that, I love chocolate and who doesn't love chocolate? I love chocolate. And when I see, you know, better for you, chocolate, I guess, is what it would be classified as, I often go the complete opposite way because when I want chocolate, I want something really rich and indulgent or really creamy. So it's 10: 30 here in the morning and I'm like, “Should I go get chocolate?” But yeah, I almost opt against that. So finding the right balance would be really tricky from a messaging standpoint.

Ruth: It is. It's the biggest challenge that there is, I think, in the whole of the “better for you'' category of getting that balance between Tasty and healthy chips. Right. In a way that's not patronizing or judgy.

Meagan: How are you tackling that with your messaging at Simply Roasted, like, do you have a hierarchy that you know you're using from a on-pack claims perspective or, you know, like a broader social messaging perspective, like what's your framework that you're using for that?

Ruth: Yeah. So I think, you know, first and foremost, it's always front of mind for me was the same based on the learnings that I've had that I want to create a brand that people are picking up because they want to, not because they feel like they should. And that I think hopefully comes through in our packaging. We wanted to be super premium and really appetizing, really bright colors and modern and contemporary. So when you first see it on shelves, you're like, Oh, that looks interesting. I want to try it. Exactly the reason you just said about chocolate. So I'm going to be enticing people through... Our crisps look and taste great. And create all of the touchpoints around that sort of content on social media. We hardly talk about health very proactively. And as part of that the other thing is always leading with taste. So, you know, taste is the number one category driver of these properties. So if it doesn't taste good, it isn't something I would snack on, which sounds pretty obvious. But then when you try the healthiest things out, we’re just like “this is horrible” and then you just want to kick out afterwards. So I think it's about leading with taste, being positive, not negative. So never never talk about guilt. Ever, ever. But also trying to kind of make people want to eat it because it looks good, not because they feel like they should. And there was this book on some vegetarian cooking by this food writer Hugh Whittingstall in the UK. And this was years ago before the point of veganism, when it was kind of pretty mainstream, like it is known. And the forward said the same thing that, you know, I want to get people to eat more veggies. I want to do that by creating recipes that just look delicious, that you want to eat, not by getting on a soapbox and lecturing you that this is what you should be doing. And that is something. Yeah, that's it. It's got to be something that you want to do, you know? So it's a bit of a battle because obviously you could go too far and definitely be guilty of that and some other people at the table. Because even though these are healthier, because you're taking everything off. So, yeah, you know, sometimes take it a bit far, but I think leading with taste, leading with brand and then, you know, quantifying that at the bottom with, you know, plus 50% of this fat. And also, to your point, staying away from diet language, keeping the fat and calories and salt messaging very functional. So it's like you talk in terms of numbers and never say low fat, low cal because that just feels like something that 90’s dietitians prescribed.

Meagan: Yeah, I mean, you can tell I was triggered clearly earlier when I was like, “OK, low low, low fat”.

Ruth: People just think, “Well, what's in it then?”

Meagan: Yeah, and those tiny little packages… like I can remember the packages. I think it's so funny. I mean, you know, marketing is marketing. I get that. But there's nuances depending on if it's B2C or B2B or that type of category that you're working in. But the one thing I'm thinking about, as you're saying this is… You know, when I started working in DIY research, which is obviously quite different from the world that you live in, we talked a lot about, you know, creating a category for self-serve research. And that entailed a lot of education, like there was a lot of educating people about why they should even want to do this. And when you're talking about, you know, leading with taste and premium packaging and really wanting to buy a specific crisp or chip as opposed to specific brand story as opposed to, you know, they should buy it. That makes me think, you know, is there a piece about educating the market around this kind of category that you're creating or this bridge between the super indulgent crisps and the really low cal crisps? Is that something that makes up part of your marketing strategy, like that educational piece?

Ruth: Yeah, it does. But I think people have got to try it first. So, you know, all hope is that you pick up the bag if you try it and then you look at the packaging, “Oh, I'm the 50%. That's great”. Because if you tell someone the problem with healthy snacks, which could be quite different from other categories, you tell someone something's healthy, they just don't believe you that it's going to be tasty. And that is so true. They almost need… In popchips, when we first launched, we didn't even have the calorie content on the front of the pack because we thought it detracted from. It was a different time than obviously now. And having the argument was like, “Guys, I think we're ready. We need to put it on the front”. The thing was it was like, you pick them up, you trying to turn the bank on, you're like, “Oh, and these are under under calories. Great”. And actually, it being delivered that way round makes quite a big difference. You can tell when something is tasty in your face, but they have to try it. Try it. Yes. I think trials are huge for us. Trial over education, hope with the hope that most people will try and see. But it does say 50% missed out on the front of the pack.

Meagan: It's not as if you're not including that messaging. I understand that that makes complete sense and it kind of goes back to your original point of, you know, you need to get people bought into wanting to try the brand as opposed to like they should for health reasons.

Ruth: And the great thing about going back to digital is that you can put all these kinds of hypotheses to the test and do loads of baby testing, which we're doing at the moment and then get try and get closer to getting that balance right.

Meagan: Yeah. Awesome. So we've talked a little bit about this, you know, why this category is so interesting right now. Is there anything else that comes to mind, what is it that you love about working in the “better for you” categories or anything else we haven't touched on?

Ruth: I think generally for me, I never had a conscious decision to set out on work in this category. It just kind of happened quite naturally in that, you know, you start in something and then you kind of create a bit of a niche for yourself. But the reason why I like it so much... I think that marketing, you know, with marketing, you're basically trying to get someone to change their behavior and you can put that quite nefarious uses if you want to.
You know, there's quite a lot of dark arts of marketing cigarettes, but you actually can't do that anymore. But you know, there's other examples which I won't name and shame at anybody. But I think that's the nice thing about working in “better for you” is, you know that. You are trying to do something that's actually leading to positive change. I just feel strongly that wellness and being healthy is a good thing and having a balance… it's all about balance and it's all about working… It's not an apple. It's about sort of having the things that you like and having a nice life, but also being quite healthy enough to be lucky enough.
It's a fun part to catch B2Bs with all the innovation now so, you know, you don't see a huge amount of innovation in indulgence, but it's all coming from “better for you”. So it's a really fun dynamic. Lots of small brands, big, a lot of the big brands, big well-established brands just don't do healthy very well. Firstly, it doesn't fit within their portfolio. It's hard for them to talk about it because it kind of undermines their big golden goose.
So what that does is create space for smaller brands. So it tends to be where all the kinds of challenging brands are and all the interesting voices. And yeah, it's fine.

Meagan: Yeah, I mean, on the topic of diet from a challenger brand perspective, are there any challenger brands that you kind of look to as people who are doing a really good job at kind of taking on the “better for you category” or even, you know, doesn't have to be that category? Are there any brands that you draw inspiration from more generally?

Ruth: Yeah, I mean, I used to love and I used to travel to the US quite a lot with popships, and I'd always my favorite thing would be to go to Whole Foods and spend like two hours just walking round Whole Foods and looking at the shelves. Because firstly, I think the US is about five years ahead of the UK. I mean, some of the trends don't work. This could be the next big thing, and then it doesn't even doesn't even hop across, but also just the volume of small brands and the amount on offer as compared to the UK is huge.
And I feel like that things are so fast moving and food and drink that you have challenger brands now challenging the challenger brands. I mean, Olipop, as you mentioned earlier, actually would have been an example that I gave, and I love what they're doing.
And you would have thought that there are loads of innovation and soft drinks, loads of companies coming together and being like, “We're doing something different”. You're like, “Wow, there's still space there”. And I love Reeses, which we don't have in the UK either, but I love that branding I love messaging and I like the visual look and feel. So it is just interesting because you would associate soft drinks completely saturated and then actually, no.

Meagan: I know. And then there's the soft drink like the bigger brands, some of who we work with at Dig who are innovating in the like hard seltzer arena or, you know, they're moving into the alcohol category, which are really interesting.

Ruth: It just moves so quickly, though, I think by the time that's happened, 15 other brands popped up. It's funny because I'm not their target consumer and I don't use that product, but I have respect for the brand who does like this food and drink. It's not for me, but the brand is called Huel… I think it's amazing. So to kind of create a whole new category or take, you know, what used to be like SlimFast and then reposition it. I think I'm sort of in awe of them. And I think you can see that brand is really important. And I think sometimes when you get in a way that it's not for other brands, I think has been a big part of their success. But people love it. I mean, I see people around and about where I live, wearing Huel hoodies, drinking out of Huel water bottles and stuff. You can create these in a relatively short space of time. So anyone who comes in and creates a category like that I think is amazing.

Meagan: Yeah. Then I'm not their target audience either.

Ruth: No, I mean, I've never tried any of their products. Also, what I do think is smart as I'm saying this, I don't have ever even been served one of their ads. So I'm not really not their target audience at all. I just have a respect for their craft, basically.

Meagan: I have served their ads before, but on a marketing level, I mean, I hadn't really thought about the fact that you're seeing people around with T-shirts and kind of swag. I think they must have done an incredible job of basically, packaging up all of that swag with, you know, the first order or something like you often see people drinking Huel with one of those Huel mugs, right? Like, it's very associated with their brand. You kind of wouldn't be able to miss it. So yeah, what they've done is really interesting.
There's also a brand that I keep looking at. The they're from the UK called Thursday. It's a dating app. Yeah, they've done some really cool stuff in such a saturated space. I don't think it's in Canada yet, so I haven't seen anything very distinct yet at all.

Ruth: They’re all over LinkedIn. I wonder if that's their main channel, I don’t know.I haven't seen them anywhere else. So but then again, not the target market, but yeah, they've got a very distinct tone of voice as well on LinkedIn. I think the sort of theme there as well is that with a brand sort of really knows itself like that and has this very clear tone of voice, very clear brand mission and then they really just focus on it. I think you can kind of tell when that's happening, and it’s very consistent and focused. That is funny. I don't have any idea of how well they're doing or…

Meagan: Me neither. I just think their experiential stuff that they're running is like, they're really cool, like they're just popping up everywhere in random places, doing some of the really different stuff. And I mean the whole concept, it matches with what they're selling, right? Because the whole concept is, you know, you date on Thursdays, I think. I haven't actually used it. So I get it, you know, it's just smart and it's cool to see someone really standing out against the likes of Bumble and Tinder which are huge.
Amazing. Well, I think that's all the time we've got today. This has been so interesting for me, and I'm sure very interesting for the listeners. Where can people find Simply Roasted? Can they find it?

Ruth: Yes. So we're launching at Whole Foods in the UK next month. So much will be at some select retailers in the UK. But at the moment, our website is probably the best place to shop, DTC. Obviously. And if any of the listeners would like to try some of the crisps I've been talking about, we have a code DIG30 with 30%% off your first order. Yeah, but we shall be popping up in other places very soon. So we've got a lot of things in the pipeline for this year. But yeah, we're at that stage at the moment where we're just at the beginning kind of pre tipping point, which is a fun time. Yeah, check our website basically.

Meagan: This is so cool. I can't wait to try them. Thank you so much, Ruth. And we will talk to you soon. Bye.

Ruth: Thank you. Cheers.

Ian: Thanks for joining us for this week's episode of Dig In. If you want more information about Dig Insights or Upsiide, please check us out on LinkedIn or on our websites, diginsights.com or upsiide.com. If you have any ideas for future episodes or would like to be a guest, please feel free to direct message me through the LinkedIn app.