00;00;06;23 - 00;00;21;03
Speaker 1
Hi. Welcome to Dig in the podcast brought to you by Digg Insights. Every week we interview founders, marketers and researchers from innovative brands to learn how they're approaching their role and their category in a clever way.

00;00;22;08 - 00;00;44;04
Speaker 2
Welcome back to this week's episode of Dig In. Today, I'm joined by Rob Bouquet, who is the CEO and under the activist Ignite 360 and he's also written a book. He's the author. And tell me more about that, which is very much in line with his and the activist. Chuck's a lot about how to be an empathetic business leader.

00;00;44;05 - 00;00;46;26
Speaker 2
Rob, such a pleasure to have you. How are you doing?

00;00;47;09 - 00;00;50;26
Speaker 3
Good. Hi, Meghan. It's great to be here. Thank you for having me on the show.

00;00;51;19 - 00;01;16;20
Speaker 2
Yeah, of course. We got a chance to meet. Well, actually, we got a chance to meet at a conference about a month ago. And then you actually came in and did a talk at Digg about much of the content that you write about in your in your book. But for anyone who doesn't know what it means to be an empathy activist, can you kind of let us know?

00;01;16;20 - 00;01;20;25
Speaker 2
What does that mean for any listeners out there who don't really know what what it might mean.

00;01;21;06 - 00;01;43;17
Speaker 3
Or can't imagine what that might possibly be? Yeah. So it's a great question. I, I got drawn to the term empathy activist. So I saw somebody on LinkedIn, used it like eight years ago and I was like, Oh my God, I love that. And I immediately messaged them and said, Hey, would you mind if I use that as well?

00;01;44;14 - 00;02;02;20
Speaker 3
Because I really love the tension between those two things are not things they're not words that people would normally associate with each other, empathy being about, you know, it's a soft skill at seeing the point of view of other people are feeling the way other people are feeling. And then activism is, you know, let's take to the streets.

00;02;02;20 - 00;02;26;27
Speaker 3
Let's bring about change. Let's do something. And but to me, that was those. They do go together and especially if we want to make the world a better place. Being an activist is one way to do that. And it doesn't mean that I go take to the streets with my picket signs. And although I have, I have been to a few good protests in my life, but it's about championing and trying to bring about change.

00;02;26;27 - 00;02;59;22
Speaker 3
And, you know, if you really look at the definition of the word activism, it is about campaigning for change. And then to me, I also felt that that is very similar to what we do in the insights industry. We are campaigning for change in our clients organizations through the work that we're doing. So we're building empathy and understanding with consumers or whoever, the customer or the client and working to try to bring about change, helping clients make the decisions on the path that they need to go on.

00;02;59;27 - 00;03;19;24
Speaker 3
You know, whether it's a packaging decision or it's a bigger business strategy, consideration where part of that campaign to bring about that change. So in effect, I think if you work in insights in any way, shape or form, you are also and I invite you to join me as empathy activists.

00;03;21;02 - 00;03;51;05
Speaker 2
That's a really, really good description of what empathy activism is. So thank you for that. I guess to take it in a different direction, why is this so important to you? Like, why is this work so important to you? You've mentioned, you know, having gone to a few protests in your day, I just want to understand a little bit more about what makes you tick and why empathy is is so crucial.

00;03;51;19 - 00;04;11;09
Speaker 3
Sure. And I don't want to give away everything that's in the book because it does have quite a lot of percent or is a memoir. But I grew up in a small town in Indiana, so in the middle of the United States, pretty conservative. And we had come in I was going into fifth grade and my family had arrived.

00;04;12;03 - 00;04;37;28
Speaker 3
And the students, my classmates, within weeks of fifth grade, starting, decided to tell everybody that I was gay. And that rumor spread like wildfire. And this is 1980. So, you know, it's a it's 1980. And then me, myself, on my personal journey, I knew I was different, but I didn't understand how or why or even understand really what gay was.

00;04;37;28 - 00;05;10;08
Speaker 3
I wasn't kind of sexually aware at that point, and that created a kind of living hell for me for a few years. But empathy became a superpower for me. That was so I liken that moment to being the sort of Peter Parker spider bite unleashing my superpower, because I ultimately was able to use empathy as a way to survive because I would get to know my classmates, I'd ask them questions from a non-judgmental perspective.

00;05;10;08 - 00;05;40;03
Speaker 3
So they were kind of telling me anything and everything and and I was doing that because it was I found that it would help with kind of rumor control or getting into tough situations. Kids wouldn't feel the need to jump in and spread the rumor or, you know, they'd walk away if somebody was kind of bullying me or I don't recall that anyone stood up for me, but at least they didn't glom on.

00;05;40;27 - 00;06;07;09
Speaker 3
And so that lessened and dampened the impact of the rumors or all the things starting. So that that's the kind of very early origin point. And then throughout my career, I was just always been an empathetic individual and, you know, believing in the goodness and equality in humanity and all of us as individuals and that we all have a story to share.

00;06;07;09 - 00;06;36;16
Speaker 3
We have a purpose and a reason for being here. And so that's led me to, you know, stand up for different causes. I was very involved in the nineties after I did come out. I was very involved in the gay rights movement living in Los Angeles, put together a few different fundraisers and protest or parades, participation. And then, you know, here in the 2000 or 2020 and 2016, I guess I marched 2017.

00;06;36;16 - 00;07;11;04
Speaker 3
I marched in the Women's March on January 21st, 2017, and did that a couple of times. So, yeah, I believe there are there's there are times and places for us to stand up for our rights. And there are different ways to go about, you know, as an activist for it. So you can campaign behind your desk, you know, stuffing envelopes, doing mailings, you know, communicating, writing, thought pieces, posting on social media.

00;07;11;04 - 00;07;34;08
Speaker 3
You can take to the streets, you know, in a protest march or or a sit in or some other hopefully peaceful form of protest to go get the word out. And it takes all of us and it takes you know, some people are more naturally inclined to take to the streets and they want to do that marching. And others are like, Yeah, that's not my thing.

00;07;34;08 - 00;07;59;07
Speaker 3
I believe in this cause, but I'm not sure how I can support it. Oh, well, here, there's here. I can stuff envelopes and try to turn out the vote. We need all of that, regardless of which side of the fence you're on, regardless of the cause. We need everybody to be actively participating in society in order to make the world a better place and make it make it one that we want to live in and want to see.

00;08;00;07 - 00;08;38;00
Speaker 2
Yeah, that's very that's super powerful. I think it's one of the things I really like is how this empathy, activism or being an empathy activist, it seems like it's spanning. It's like bringing the maybe personal and professional kind of closer together, which I think is really nice in the sense that your bringing something that maybe we, you know, this activism piece that maybe only lives on the personal side of your life, you don't really necessarily consider it as something professionally that you need to incorporate.

00;08;38;00 - 00;08;53;27
Speaker 2
I like that it kind of spans well, something I didn't think about the first time we chatted, but that's quite nice. I mean, on that note, what does empathy or practicing empathy mean within the business context or within the corporate world?

00;08;54;17 - 00;09;27;17
Speaker 3
Sure. And I think, you know, as as we're in the insights industry, there's two different things. There is, you know, practicing empathy at work, but then there's also practicing empathy in our work. And so in the actual function that we play, in the role that we have within organizations. And so practicing empathy at work, which this is about everybody and how we show up and how we engage, it doesn't matter what function you're in or your level in the organization.

00;09;27;17 - 00;09;48;01
Speaker 3
But yeah, I mean, it kind of comes down to how are you treating other people the way you want to be treated yourself? And I often ask people like, think about what you know, the way you're engaging, communicating with somebody, how would it feel if you were on the receiving end of that? Is that what you're hoping for looking for?

00;09;48;11 - 00;10;16;25
Speaker 3
And that's something that's really powerful, just having that sort of level of self-awareness because that on its own can help you change your behavior. Because suddenly with awareness, you have choice. You have choice in how you want to respond or show up in different situations. But empathy, it's fascinating. Like, you know, coming out of the worst of the pandemic, there was suddenly this great resignation.

00;10;16;25 - 00;10;40;22
Speaker 3
And you're seeing in the United States, more than 4 million people are quitting their jobs every single month. That's been going on for over a year now. And those are largely white collar knowledge workers. And that's happening because they weren't feeling that they were getting supported by their leadership, among a couple other factors. But largely like during the pandemic, their bosses weren't there for them.

00;10;41;20 - 00;11;02;13
Speaker 3
They weren't feeling supported. And so suddenly that bond, that connection was broken. The loyalty that somebody might have to an organization, because it's like, well, do they really care about me then? Oh, look, here's this other job. I'm going to go over here. I'll make more money. I can work remotely. They seem like great people, and I'll give that a go.

00;11;02;13 - 00;11;36;09
Speaker 3
And that's worked for some and it's not work for others is various articles that you read, and that's just kind of the normal course of life. But showing up as a manager empathetically, it's about taking the time to listen and to be present and to talk with your colleagues, your direct reports, reflecting their perspective, reflecting what's going on with and seeing who they are, what they're going through, and working with that with them to get to a better sort of place.

00;11;37;06 - 00;12;03;17
Speaker 3
And it scares a lot of a lot of leaders at different levels. There's some research from business solver. They do a state of workplace empathy study every year. And one of the pieces of data they found and I don't have the exact numbers correct, but they're within a few percentage points. But 75% of CEOs recognize that empathy is an important skill, that they need to be practicing and demonstrating in their organization.

00;12;03;17 - 00;12;48;10
Speaker 3
They need to foster that. And about 70% of those CEOs also feel that they will be perceived as weak if they show empathy, that they're going to be seen as being weak because they are using their empathy skills. So there's a huge barrier to overcome where, you know, because from business school to media representations to what you actually are experiencing in the workplace and it varies by industry, but there's some very traditional models of this is what it means to be a manager and it's, you know, cold hearted, you know, and empathetic, not supportive.

00;12;48;10 - 00;12;58;06
Speaker 3
It's all about getting ahead. It's all about profit. It's all about, you know, these things, which maybe makes for a an engaging TV dramatization.

00;12;58;06 - 00;13;08;17
Speaker 2
But it is just a moment to say that. Have you watched industry, Rob? It's it's wild, but yeah. Sorry, sorry. Continue.

00;13;08;22 - 00;13;31;13
Speaker 3
No, it's it's true. And you so you and you are still seeing that today. And then you have Ted Lasso show up. And if you want to see an example of an empathetic leader, Ted Lasso is like probably the best one that's out there right now where he really recognizes what every individual is going through. He has his own ways.

00;13;31;13 - 00;14;08;00
Speaker 3
And sometimes they're they're a little unconventional, but it gets the point across like he he's he helps everybody feel supported. And that has the effect of having everybody in, especially because it's a football slash soccer team depending on which country you're in. It has everybody playing and going in the same direction and working together as a team. He ends up having that effect of pulling everyone together and getting them focused, and they come close to doing well.

00;14;08;00 - 00;14;26;02
Speaker 2
They come close to doing well. I feel like I can talk about Ted Lasso for an entire episode. I wonder if there's a way I could try and weasel that into one of the episodes we do. Maybe there's a and we do a follow up on just TED Lasso as an empathetic leader.

00;14;26;18 - 00;14;49;20
Speaker 3
But conversation. And so yeah, so it shows up at work and it doesn't matter whether you're a manager or you are an independent or individual contributor, you know, you have to collaborate with other people, you know, for anything that you're doing, you have to, you know, you're communicating, you're collaborating, you're making decisions. You might be problem solving or editing.

00;14;49;28 - 00;15;17;07
Speaker 3
Empathy is part and parcel to that. It's and that's another misconception people have about empathy. They think, oh, if I have empathy, like, hooray, I've arrived. And it's like, Oh, no, that's just a waypoint on your journey. You've got to keep going and use empathy in all these other skills that you have, because that is what's going to make you a great leader, team member or manager or volunteer.

00;15;17;28 - 00;15;26;19
Speaker 3
And then on your personal life, you know, friend, family, member, partner, parent, all the things.

00;15;26;19 - 00;15;59;25
Speaker 2
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, it's kind of interesting because I was about before you mentioned the stats from Business Solver. I was about to ask the question of why is this controversial? You know what I mean? Like what? Like, what about this is so or it's not that it has to be. But then as soon as you mentioned the start around, people believing that if they show too much empathy, they may be seen or too much vulnerability, they may be seen as weak.

00;16;00;24 - 00;16;29;27
Speaker 2
Yeah, it kind of puts all of that into into context. I think depending on where you work. Like I've never worked in an environment where people like that kind of behavior, like behavior from industry, for example, would be celebrated. But I guess if you if you have or that's kind of how you've grown up in the business world, it absolutely often is the way that people think you should act in the workplace.

00;16;29;27 - 00;16;42;07
Speaker 2
So yeah, it's kind of good to check myself there. So I was like, Why is this? Why is this controversial? Like, of course you want to show up as an empathetic leader, but and yeah, in a lot of situations, that's not the norm.

00;16;42;20 - 00;17;22;28
Speaker 3
Right? And, you know, a lot of the leaders that really have succeeded actually do have a measure of empathy. They're not all cold hearted. You know, we we can look at the sort of ones that have the media spotlight, the tech titans right now. And I think those are they are often the exception to the rule. But I would also look at Satya Nadella at Microsoft, who is a highly empathetic leader and he recognizes that leadership, empathy and leadership, it's just it's another data point and you're taking into consideration the feelings or the perspective of other people.

00;17;22;28 - 00;17;45;08
Speaker 3
And by doing that, it makes you better at everything that you do. You know, if you're going to sit down at the negotiating table with somebody over a contract, if you understand what they're looking for and what's going to, you know, satisfy them and you know what you're looking for, you're going to be able to negotiate with them or against them much more effectively by having that other piece of data.

00;17;45;08 - 00;18;06;26
Speaker 3
It's not just a zero sum game of I want this and it must be this way. You know, you look at anything that gets done in Congress, in the United States, it's when there's well, either one party just has absolute control or ideally when there's some ability to compromise. And it takes empathy in order. What are you doing when you're compromising?

00;18;06;26 - 00;18;33;16
Speaker 3
You're seeing the point of view of somebody else and you're finding that middle ground and you're not going to know where the middle ground is. If you don't understand where the other person's coming from because you don't know where the middle might be. So yeah, it's so critical in everything that we do yet it's also and I think to your point, like it's a soft skill and you know, soft skills and IQ have become, you know, all the rage in the last ten or 15 years.

00;18;33;16 - 00;19;01;22
Speaker 3
And hallelujah. But there's still you know, there's so much subjective, like, how do I actually execute this? How do I actually be empathetic and demonstrate that? And so we need to do better at having a training opportunities or, you know, some of the talk that I gave to you guys a couple of weeks ago, I gave another one to another firm yesterday.

00;19;01;22 - 00;19;23;23
Speaker 3
And we ended up you know, I talked for like 35, 40 minutes, and then we had a 20 minute conversation as a group about how empathy was showing up for them or how you handled certain situations. And and organizations need to move into a culture where it's okay to talk about this stuff. And we also have to have grace and forgiveness with ourselves that we're human.

00;19;24;01 - 00;19;34;16
Speaker 3
We're not going to get it right all the time, but what's important is that we're trying and that our attempts at trying are coming from a place of sincerity.

00;19;34;16 - 00;20;00;00
Speaker 2
Yeah, I do think that even I mean, there were lots of valuable things we learned from that session you gave us. But I think one of the big things, having spoken to my team, was really just remembering that it's a muscle you need to flex, remembering that that's something that you need to remember almost. That was really useful because it it starts to show up in meetings or, you know, in the work that you're doing in a marketing perspective.

00;20;01;11 - 00;20;21;03
Speaker 2
And that's kind of what I wanted to touch on next. So we talked about what it means to be an empathetic member of a team or member of a company. But what does it mean to be an empathetic insights leader or an empathetic marketer? Like tactically, how can people start to incorporate that into the work they're doing?

00;20;21;29 - 00;20;55;16
Speaker 3
Yeah. So as particularly if you're in the insights function, you are definitely an empathy activist. You know, you got this job just like the partners, suppliers that you work with, whether it's like Bank 360 or Digg or Upside. We have to understand not only how the consumers are feeling, but we've got to actually take our stakeholders and help them connect and understand that and deal with anybody else.

00;20;55;16 - 00;21;27;01
Speaker 3
That's, you know, if we have clients and then they've got stakeholders, it's it's this multilayered diagram of connection. And you have to be really good at understanding empathy in order and understanding, like, how do I use this? What's getting in my audience's way? The Five Steps to empathy came about, which is what we when I write about in the book and what we coach and train that came about because we were doing these engagements.

00;21;27;01 - 00;21;53;16
Speaker 3
Clients wanted to get some empathy, they wanted to build connections with their their consumers, and we would do these activities. And there was a lot of judgment, the client, the marketers in particular, which is who this was being done for, weren't able to always bridge the gap. There were too many things that were getting in their way. They either weren't paying attention because they had other things going on or they were choosing to look at their phone or their laptop.

00;21;53;27 - 00;22;26;17
Speaker 3
Instead of having it being present. They had judgment because the consumer was making a choice that the marketer might not have made themselves and they weren't able to see or understand, get to get beyond their judgment to dismantle that. So if you're in the insights, function, understanding and having that kind of mastery of cognitive empathy and understanding how to make that connection yourself and how to help your your stakeholders do that is is really critical.

00;22;27;08 - 00;22;53;03
Speaker 3
And it's what we do every single day. It's, you know, and then it's finding the stories in the research that you can bring forward and make that connection. And then if you're a marketer, I mean, you know, you empathy is empathy is key there because if you're, you know, if you are in a role, whether you are working with the retail channel, for example, you've got buyers.

00;22;53;03 - 00;23;23;27
Speaker 3
So there's another party that's selling your product directly to the consumer. You need to understand where that buyer's coming from, where the retailer is coming from, what's important to them. And if you can do that and present how your product can solve their problem, then like here's a home run very similarly. Then if you're creating an ad campaign or a new product, you need to understand the role that your product or service fits the problem.

00;23;23;27 - 00;23;47;00
Speaker 3
It solves the job to be done. Choose your framework. You need to understand what it does with the consumer, and you need to understand that deeply. It's it's an intellectual exercise, but you've got to make sure you don't have these judgment hurdles that are going to get in the way as you because you've got to sprint to the finish line with your ad or getting a new product out.

00;23;47;18 - 00;24;04;01
Speaker 3
So it's super important to make sure that you're able to see who your consumer is, what makes them tick, how your product fits, and by understanding their point of view, where they're coming from, what their life is like, you're going to be able to make much better products and services and marketing campaigns.

00;24;05;18 - 00;24;26;11
Speaker 2
Yeah, that that makes a ton of sense. It's almost like research and empathy and I mean, I'm this is not true. I'm thinking out loud here, but like when you describe research or insights work, it's basically just empathy with tools to be more empathetic, you know what I mean? Like it feels like the same thing.

00;24;27;05 - 00;24;55;23
Speaker 3
Well, it is what? Whether it's quantitative or qualitative, you are trying to understand how somebody thinks, feels, behaves, perceptions, opinions, beliefs, behaviors, attitudes. That's all empathy. Ultimately, you're trying to understand that and you use different tools depending on what you're trying to understand. And, you know, hopefully you're not just stopping at the quantitative data and like, oh, one third of all Americans do this well.

00;24;55;23 - 00;25;10;21
Speaker 3
Okay, why? What's going on? And, you know, whether that's coming through in your survey and you've pulled that out or you have some other research that can help tell you, but it's important to understand who the consumer is. That's empathy.

00;25;11;15 - 00;25;12;25
Speaker 2
Yeah, absolutely.

00;25;13;08 - 00;25;18;05
Speaker 3
So maybe we should start to campaign that all Insight's functions should actually.

00;25;19;01 - 00;25;19;06
Speaker 2
Go.

00;25;19;28 - 00;25;21;09
Speaker 3
Into the activist or the empathy.

00;25;22;29 - 00;25;28;17
Speaker 2
Yeah, I'm down all sign the petition. Okay. Okay.

00;25;28;18 - 00;25;32;05
Speaker 3
And then will you take to the street. Said as some are with me for that.

00;25;33;19 - 00;25;47;05
Speaker 2
Yeah, absolutely. So you know what I'm both we were going to put up we don't even worry about that. We'll just we'll reposition and it'll just be empathy. Activists Campaign Headquarters. Absolutely.

00;25;47;13 - 00;25;52;19
Speaker 3
It's Dominic. Let's get him on board.

00;25;52;19 - 00;26;28;10
Speaker 2
Okay. So cool. Switching gears a little bit. I just wanted to before we're running out of time a little bit. So this is probably the last the last little question or piece of feedback I can get from you. But are there any brands that you think are doing a great job, sort of leading with empathy, maybe brands that you don't think are doing a good job or they don't seem to be able to capture what's going on with their consumer or understand what's going on with the consumer or have empathy for for the consumer.

00;26;29;02 - 00;27;02;18
Speaker 3
Yeah. So it's a really fine line for every brand to walk and sometimes you nail it and sometimes you totally miss it. And you know, the one that I always go to that's been the I think the standout shining example for the last 20 years almost is is dove and the real beauty campaign. And when you talk to anybody that was working on that, it was grounded in this deeper, empathetic understanding of who the consumers were and kudos to them.

00;27;02;18 - 00;27;26;06
Speaker 3
For once, they unlocked that insight of the differences in the way that women perceive themselves and the definitions of beauty and the way that beauty is different around the world. They stuck to their guns and they were able to launch that campaign. That brand has had tremendous growth and success over time. So, you know, anytime somebody points to, you know, oh, what's the ROI on empathy?

00;27;26;06 - 00;27;47;19
Speaker 3
It's like, well, Dove went from I think it was like 4 billion to $10 billion as a brand. I mean, it's a massive global brand now, but they also don't always get it right. And you know, Megan, you had pointed out as we were talking that different bottle shake campaign they did four or five years ago that did not get.

00;27;48;01 - 00;27;49;14
Speaker 2
A little bit. Yeah.

00;27;49;29 - 00;28;04;13
Speaker 3
Yeah, I left it. Left something to be desired. Maybe didn't have empathy necessarily with ultimately with the consumer. You know, I have to imagine they tested it somehow to get consumer feedback. And I'm.

00;28;04;13 - 00;28;05;00
Speaker 2
Sure.

00;28;05;06 - 00;28;11;16
Speaker 3
You know, and then there's the campaign of changing your skin and that sort of feeling.

00;28;11;16 - 00;28;12;25
Speaker 2
And yeah.

00;28;13;15 - 00;28;26;20
Speaker 3
They sadly made some transitions there in the campaign that didn't really reflect properly. You know, having having a black woman morph into a white woman is not just not good.

00;28;27;02 - 00;28;59;07
Speaker 2
It's it's and it's funny how it's it's like those executional decisions, right? Like it's like you almost have to have, like, empathy, touch points at each phase. Like we talk about the innovation pipeline and innovation research and the different phases and you know, screening and concept testing and, you know, content, concept optimization like that kind of thing. You almost need to build in like that check or sense check at each stage.

00;28;59;19 - 00;29;41;15
Speaker 3
Yeah. And you know, I don't have the inside track on I didn't work on any of those campaigns. I don't know how they came about and what testing they did. But yeah, like was there a DEA, a consultant that was brought in? Did they you know, I can see I mean, very common. Later testing comes you're going to either do it quantitatively, you're going to put it into a group and it's like, well, did you test it with black women with a black moderator or did you have black women with a white moderator where there may be, especially in that group dynamic, there's going to be some, you know, suppression of willingness to speak out.

00;29;41;15 - 00;30;14;27
Speaker 3
They're going to want to try to conform and do what the the white moderator say, what they think the white moderator wants. You know, you need some of those conversations. They actually need to be done. When there's that level of sensitivity, you need to do it and have, you know, like on like and and, you know, I found myself as a moderator when I'm able to have conversations with people that are different from me, when they're one on one and get what I feel is a pretty authentic and has been, you know, kind of validated by other peers.

00;30;14;27 - 00;30;43;18
Speaker 3
Like, yeah, that's a pretty authentic presentation because for them to show up versus like the group dynamics that get started. And so yes, I think if anything that you're doing that's going to have, you know, particularly the marketing campaigns, because they cost a lot of money, they're really quick to, you know, social media is vicious and really fast at calling you out and can get you, you know, can do damage to your brand.

00;30;43;18 - 00;31;10;23
Speaker 3
So it's worth taking the time to do it right, ask the questions to show it around, get feedback. Is this is this working? You know, the Cup dinner, given a Pepsi to a bunch of police officers, watches, standing with a bunch of, you know, all the multicultural, you know, multifaceted, diverse audience. And it's like, wow, oh, my God.

00;31;10;23 - 00;31;35;20
Speaker 2
So, yeah, it's it's interesting, actually. That's a really good insight that you just shared in terms of or maybe it's something that goes through researchers, heads, all the time. But just this idea that even in a focus group or something where there's a group of people you can definitely be potentially or you might feel like you can be less vulnerable or less open than you would be if you were just talking one on one to someone.

00;31;36;17 - 00;31;47;24
Speaker 2
And I hadn't really thought about that before, but it's a good tip, especially if you're dealing with super sensitive topics or subject matter. So now I appreciate that and.

00;31;48;11 - 00;31;59;23
Speaker 3
We have to be aware of the bias that's going to show up in the room from both the researcher as well as the participants, and how that's going to inform everything.

00;31;59;23 - 00;32;27;16
Speaker 2
Yeah, I agree with you on the real beauty campaign. Like I remember those being like, so amazing. Like when they first came out, I just remember feeling very seen. And I think that that's probably the biggest compliment that a marketer could get is like, wow, I felt so seen and understood by this campaign that it was amazing. That's a great reference point.

00;32;27;16 - 00;32;29;21
Speaker 2
I mean, any other brands that you wanted to call out?

00;32;30;21 - 00;32;59;22
Speaker 3
You know, I've been I'm a regular flier on United Airlines. And so their ads get thrown into my feed or I see them on the planes. They've got a new good campaign, I think is what I would call it. And they do a nice job of looking kind of holistically at all the different touch points from the passenger side and the passenger experience, as well as the employees.

00;32;59;22 - 00;33;33;05
Speaker 3
And kind of in that, you know, stories of good, the things that we're trying to do and airlines, you know, are in with its millions of passengers every single day. And like, it's it's it's a thankless sort of job. But I think that campaign is doing a nice job to reflect, you know, ultimately why people are traveling, what the needs are and how they're positioning themselves as, you know, being there to help create these positive experiences for people.

00;33;33;05 - 00;33;37;04
Speaker 3
So yeah, I think United's one that just kind of popped into my head.

00;33;38;15 - 00;33;48;03
Speaker 2
It's amazing that this has been such a pleasure. Gary Girl, can you let people know where to find your book? Tell me more about that.

00;33;48;20 - 00;34;11;21
Speaker 3
Yes, tell me more about that. Solving the empathy crisis one conversation at a time. So wherever people prefer to buy books, they can find the book. It's available in hardcover. It's also available as an audiobook. Like I narrated it, I'm really happy with how that turned out. So if you're an audiobook person, please check that out. And it's also available as an e-book.

00;34;11;21 - 00;34;41;23
Speaker 3
If that's your your jam. And then on all the platforms, I mean Amazon and then all the major retailers and the indies as well. And so wherever people like to find it, you can learn more about me by visiting Ignite Dash 36. com and you can also find me on the social rub fob we just put in Rob Volpi empathy activist into your search on pretty much anything but like LinkedIn you'll find me there.

00;34;41;23 - 00;34;55;00
Speaker 3
I'm empathy activist at Instagram and I just encourage people to please reach out, ask questions. And I love talking to people, so I always try to make the time.

00;34;55;00 - 00;35;01;08
Speaker 2
Amazing. Thank you so much. We'll be back next week. But until then, I'll talk to you soon.

00;35;01;11 - 00;35;09;25
Speaker 3
I'm awesome and thanks Meghan. I buy.

00;35;09;25 - 00;35;16;22
Speaker 1
Thanks for tuning in this week. Find us on LinkedIn at Digg Insights and don't forget to hit subscribe for a weekly dose of fresh content.