00;00;06;23 - 00;00;21;03
Speaker 1
Hi. Welcome to Dig in the podcast brought to you by Digg Insights. Every week we interview founders, marketers and researchers from innovative brands to learn how they're approaching their role and their category in a clever way.

00;00;22;08 - 00;00;47;20
Speaker 2
Welcome back to this week's episode of Dig In. So excited to have Brown joining us. She's the founder of Gazelle Global, which is a research operations business. We're going to talk a little bit about how to build an international business, what it was like to be a woman in business in the nineties, and also what it means to be a global business when you're based firmly in one country.

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Speaker 2
And how are you doing?

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Speaker 3
Well, first of all, thank you so much for having me. I feel honored. I'm doing well. But I think, wow, there's so much to say today because congratulations are in order. I just read last night that the Beringer Capital has taken on a majority stake in Digg Insights. So this sounds so awesome. Congratulations to you and to the whole team there.

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Speaker 3
I think it's very exciting.

00;01;19;00 - 00;01;50;18
Speaker 2
Oh, thank you so much. That's so sweet. Yeah. No, we're very, very excited. It's been in the works for a while, but to be able to announce it and we had so much positive feedback from everyone. So thank you and I really appreciate it. I mean, I would I would love to. I'm going to give a very brief description of our global just now, but I'd love to get the listeners a little bit more up to speed on a bit about you, like what your background is and then a little bit about your business.

00;01;51;25 - 00;01;57;04
Speaker 3
Yes. Yes, I. Yeah, that's a big great great.

00;01;57;05 - 00;01;58;15
Speaker 2
So why don't you tell us?

00;01;58;29 - 00;02;30;13
Speaker 3
Yeah. So, you know, because I always started in the mid-nineties, actually the early nineties and it was a really a niche business back then because we were started to, to provide the complete operational support to the insights community which we just took to be called, you know, full service market research firms at the time. We now talk about them as the insight community, but back then we were really a niche business, very there was very little, very few firms did the kind of work that we did.

00;02;30;14 - 00;03;03;06
Speaker 3
So, you know, when we talk about operations as a as a business, we're talking about everything that happens in between design and analysis. So the parts of the business that we cover. Global sample, of course. And what really differentiates us is that we, we do global data collection in all methodologies. So whatever happens to be appropriate for the area of the world that we're doing interviewing and that's what we'll do.

00;03;04;07 - 00;03;13;14
Speaker 3
Programing and hosting, of course, data processing, coding, translations. All of that becomes a part of the operations business when you're working globally.

00;03;13;29 - 00;03;26;12
Speaker 2
Awesome. Thank you for that. And you said Gazelle has been around since the early nineties. I mean, what made you start start a business? What were you up to before creating your own business?

00;03;27;06 - 00;03;58;22
Speaker 3
Well, I actually I was on the operations team for a couple of different companies. I called myself Old Yank because I was a part of this research firm, Yankelovich and Yankelovich. Scully and White. And I was always on the operations side and a client of ours actually proposed that we start this business because they really didn't want to have operations as a part of their internal business.

00;03;59;00 - 00;04;31;07
Speaker 3
Because the reason being, and it still holds true today and in many cases at its costly for a firm to have an entire operations staff internally when there are ups and downs in the volume of our business. So it's great when we're busy, when firms are busy, but when they're not, they're still paying those salaries. Whereas if you have a company that just does operations that works for you, you just use them when you need them and when you don't, they're working for someone else.

00;04;31;08 - 00;04;35;15
Speaker 3
So it made a lot of sense then and I think it still makes sense today.

00;04;36;24 - 00;04;47;11
Speaker 2
And is there anything about your business like within the research operations space that's particularly unique, the way that your structure or anything like that?

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Speaker 3
Yeah, I think, you know, we're basically a white glove service. You know, we're really high touch. I think that the the fact that we do in-person interviewing all over the world still today really sets us apart from most everybody in terms of we've been doing this since the mid-nineties. So we, you know, we know how to get it done.

00;05;10;25 - 00;05;35;12
Speaker 3
And I think a lot of people say they do it today, but I think there's really just a handful of people who can actually say that they, you know, might have a job in Singapore and maybe somewhere in the Middle East and another study in the five majors in Europe. And, you know, all at the same time, I think, you know, that's kind of a rarity today.

00;05;36;25 - 00;05;56;23
Speaker 2
Yeah. I think when we chatted a couple of weeks ago, you mentioned that research operations I'm going to misquote you. I'm going to I'm going to butcher what you said. But I think you said something along the lines of it's not the most glamorous part of of research, but it's probably the the most useful. Like, it's the it's the nuts and bolts.

00;05;57;21 - 00;06;30;27
Speaker 3
Is it? It's yes, it's the nuts and bolts of of all of the work that that is actually insights. You know, we don't do the design and we don't do the analysis. But everything that comes in between, you know, all of that back office work, all of that interviewing, all of that programing, hosting, turning the data into readable results, all of that, you know, the translations, the, you know, the coding, the interpretation of, of open ends in other languages, all of that comes on the operations side.

00;06;30;27 - 00;06;44;13
Speaker 3
So, you know, we become a really good partner to research firms. You know, it's it's a collaboration between the people who do the design and the people who do the analysis and the people who actually get the work done. It really is a collaboration. You know, it's a thoughtful process.

00;06;45;07 - 00;07;05;15
Speaker 2
So me and what do you see, as you mentioned, that there are some firms that kind of say they do research jobs, they're not doing it in in a way that's as effective as what you're doing. But like, what are those mistakes that people are making when it comes to business operations? And and I guess it's a double word quest double barreled question here.

00;07;05;24 - 00;07;12;01
Speaker 2
How would you recommend people rethink their approach to research operations if they are making those common mistakes?

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Speaker 3
I mean, one of the things that I think is really important and it's kind of a blunt statement, but I think people really need to face the fact that you get what you pay for. And it's it's it's not we're not looking for researchers insights. Professionals shouldn't be looking for a bargain basement solution to a study that's going to have an effect on, you know, the end clients decision making.

00;07;43;10 - 00;08;15;20
Speaker 3
You know, they're they're maybe going to launch a product there, maybe going to change packaging, maybe they're going to decide whether or not they're going to continue a certain drug. Maybe they're, you know, deciding how physicians are using certain medicines. You know, these are not decisions that should be taken lightly. So when you think about it in those terms, then you think about the fact that people are looking for bargain basement prices half the time.

00;08;15;29 - 00;08;48;19
Speaker 3
You know, it doesn't really correlate. Well, you know, I think I think the the enormity of the you know, a lot of weight is is put on research firms to give good feedback to end clients. And I think that they should you know, there should be a a strong reason to look for the quality of the product that they you know, that that firms are providing.

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Speaker 3
So I think that's the main thing. You know, I think people should be, you know, look to the way that people respond to an are if you know an RFQ is it just here's the price and walk away or is that thought is it a thoughtful response to the the the proposed job? You know, I, I the other part of it is I think that we have to face the fact that respondents are not a renewable resource.

00;09;16;14 - 00;09;38;21
Speaker 3
I think my friend Lisa Building Brown said that I'll give her credit for it. They're not. So we have to treat them with respect. You know, these long surveys with, you know, attribute batteries that, you know, can make you cross your eyes, you know, is really difficult for respondents. And I think, you know, which we're still somewhat guilty of that.

00;09;39;01 - 00;10;08;11
Speaker 3
So, you know, when you when you're thinking about how studies are run these days, you know, longer jobs and they don't get the same. It's not as easy to to process them anymore. So, you know, I think all of these things have to be taken into consideration when you're thinking about the operations process and who you're going to use to, you know, to provide this very valuable data that's going to go into your storytelling.

00;10;08;28 - 00;10;09;08
Speaker 3
So.

00;10;09;26 - 00;10;18;21
Speaker 2
Yeah, I really like that. That sentence, that phrase respondents are not a renewable resource. Yeah, I love it.

00;10;18;26 - 00;10;38;14
Speaker 3
I think Lisa, I'm pretty sure Lisa said that, you know, I keep quoting it because it's so cool that yeah, they're not, you know, you, you just waste them because you are, you know, they're they're in the middle of your survey. They're just going away because, you know, their their eyes have been crossed by this battery of attributes that, you know, kind of has their eyes crossed.

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Speaker 3
You know, you just it's just not a good thing.

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Speaker 2
Yeah. And can you talk a little bit about how you mitigate against that? So within your survey design, for instance, or sorry, within any of your business, like what what are you doing to mitigate against.

00;10;57;06 - 00;11;29;10
Speaker 3
How you're telling people in the bidding process that, you know, if you if you're asking us to do a study that's like 25 minutes long, you're going to be in the field for a few weeks because it's going to be very difficult to get the number of complaints that you want. So we're telling people that, you know, you really need to get this shorter, especially if you want you know, if somebody wants 3000 respondents, don't send a questionnaire that's 20 minutes long because it's it's going to be very difficult to to do that.

00;11;29;22 - 00;11;54;19
Speaker 3
And, you know, we're also telling people we're also trying to tell people to look at the the makeup of their quotas. You know, do you are you do you have a good quota makeup? You know, are you are you are you sampling properly to get a good a good view of, you know, perhaps some underserved populations if you want to look at them?

00;11;55;09 - 00;12;25;27
Speaker 3
Are you are you oversampling them? Because that's what you'll need to do. So, you know, that kind of thing. You know, there's a lot of we're very collaborative. So, you know, we're not going to tell you that. Oh, yeah. You know, there's a facility and you know, some teeny weeny place in some rural community when there isn't, you know, we're and we're going to we're going to tell you that if you you know, if there are 50 hematologists in Finland, we're going to tell you and you want 35, we're going to tell you it's not possible.

00;12;26;19 - 00;12;41;21
Speaker 3
That's the kind of thing you know, it has to be a collaborative approach. People have to understand that, that we're not saying no because we don't want to do it. We're saying no because it's not it's not going to happen.

00;12;42;02 - 00;13;06;04
Speaker 2
It's not feasible. Yeah, very interesting. Thank you for that. I did want to chat a little bit about kind of you as a founder and what it was like as a female founder building a business in the nineties because we got into kind of a fun tangent the last time we chatted, and I think the listeners would find it fascinating.

00;13;06;04 - 00;13;10;00
Speaker 2
So tell me what that was like being a woman building a business.

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Speaker 3
It was crazy. It really was. I would go to a conference, you know, maybe with, you know, some peers, some conference, and somebody would have, you know, and I would look around the room and they were 100 people there and there were five women. It was ridiculous. And and, you know, then there would be golf outings, you know, and all the guys would go off and play golf.

00;13;31;02 - 00;13;57;04
Speaker 3
And then, you know, I don't play golf. Maybe I should have learned, but I didn't, you know, and then so it even big, massive conferences back in those days, you know, there were a lot of women in who, you know, had were at the conference because they had research roles. But when you really looked around at who was running the companies, it was it was mostly men.

00;13;57;04 - 00;14;23;00
Speaker 3
And I think it's different today. You know, I think it's I mean, you know, there was Mrs. Schlessinger, you know, who started that business. And, you know, she's one of the women heroes, actually, when you think about it. She started a, you know, a kitchen table business that's now grown into this enormous conglomerate. And there were other women back in that day who did the same.

00;14;23;00 - 00;14;42;15
Speaker 3
Sugar research was run by women, you know, so that there are, you know, a lot of companies that were had were founded or run by women. But the majority of of the research business was led by males. So it was it was crazy.

00;14;42;15 - 00;15;03;11
Speaker 2
Wow. And did that change the way that you approached how to build that business or did that have an impact, I guess, on your business? Is success like the fact that you were a woman leading it? I just want to know, like, yeah. Did that change the way that you you you approach the business in any way?

00;15;04;10 - 00;15;31;10
Speaker 3
I think it was it was a bit of a negative effect actually, in the beginning. You know, I think that, you know, we really I don't think that women, you know, we were always taken seriously. You know, I don't think that I think, you know, there was definitely a bit of discrimination in terms of working back in those days, you know.

00;15;31;16 - 00;16;11;01
Speaker 3
But then again, there was wonderful opportunity, you know, because we're, you know, wherever there's a challenge is also opportunity. So, you know, I think Gazelle is has a reputation for quality for the quality of our product. And, you know, I'm very proud of that. My former partner, Harriet Natus and I, we you know, that was one of the things that we were always our thinking was always aligned in that, you know, we must and I think, you know, actually, I think we had to work harder and have a very superior product because we were women and, you know, to to to compete.

00;16;11;01 - 00;16;14;13
Speaker 3
I think we, you know, had a really elevate our our game.

00;16;16;07 - 00;16;23;26
Speaker 2
And if we think about any women entrepreneurs now, I know you said it's you know it's changed that.

00;16;24;15 - 00;16;25;05
Speaker 3
Wonderful now the.

00;16;25;10 - 00;16;39;13
Speaker 2
Research world and just in general entrepreneurship has changed in terms of representation. And, you know, there's a lot more of that to come, hopefully. But would you have any advice for entrepreneurs that are women?

00;16;40;15 - 00;17;08;17
Speaker 3
Yes. Where we've been women owned, you know, since 2000. So we we've also been a member of B and C. So and I think that's helpful for people to know that we're women owned and we're certified women owned. You know, you have to go through this whole process, you know, where they look at your taxes and, you know, they might come to your office to make sure that, you know, you actually have a place.

00;17;08;21 - 00;17;27;26
Speaker 3
Right. And you're not just a, you know, a figurehead or whatever. But I think the other thing about, you know, for women today is that they should join where, you know, that's the that's the women in research. That's the that's the thing to do because there is so much there for so many resources there. You know, there is mentorship.

00;17;28;02 - 00;17;50;01
Speaker 3
There's office hours where they have, you know, basic icons in our industry that you can actually reach out to and ask, you know, ask for help there. There's just the collaboration of the group alone and the size of the group. I mean, I think it's maybe 12 years old or something like that now, but, you know, it has members, members all over the world.

00;17;50;01 - 00;18;14;08
Speaker 3
And there are there are meetups and virtual meet ups and in-person meet ups all around the world to get to meet meet your peers, meet your colleagues and men are welcome. So I think that's the thing. You know, there is there's opportunity now and there are resources now. And it's more of a collaborative world today than it was back then.

00;18;14;08 - 00;18;43;04
Speaker 3
So I think that yeah, it's it's and anyone who wants to start a business should reach out. You know, any female founders should reach out to wire to wire exec. You can become a member of wire. Exactly. You can post questions in our in our chats. You know, people are always responding with helpful advice. You know, I would say go to the meetings, meet your peers.

00;18;43;08 - 00;18;44;11
Speaker 3
It's it's a wonderful thing.

00;18;45;08 - 00;19;10;06
Speaker 2
Yeah. And so I guess in that sense, really what you're saying is if people who are listening aren't in the research industry, it's all about, you know, fostering that community of people that you can sort of lean on and learn from and that's what I've heard of. You know, I've spoken to thinking of Katie, who was the founder of True Tolu, which is a sustainable snacking brand like she.

00;19;10;06 - 00;19;28;13
Speaker 2
That was the main thing she mentioned as well was she is based in Austin and there is this wonderful community of female entrepreneurs that she's able to kind of lean on and learn from. And I think that that's so wonderful. So it's a great piece of advice and where you are in research is awesome. So do.

00;19;28;22 - 00;19;53;29
Speaker 3
I think. I think I think that's the thing. You know, there's so many there are so many organizations now where women can reach out to their peers and everybody's everybody's willing to help. Now, you know, they say collaboration is the new competition. So I think that's that's the thing. You know, you just have to reach out for help because it's there a lot of pressure there.

00;19;54;05 - 00;20;23;16
Speaker 3
I don't really think, you know, the throughout the years, there have always been some guys, some men in our industry who have always been willing to help. And, you know, kudos to them. You know, you have to say that you can't just lump everyone together. And there have been many times when I've reached out and had the support of of friends and colleagues in the industry.

00;20;24;23 - 00;20;33;11
Speaker 3
And, you know, I, I think that's important as well. But, you know, I think women in research is really helpful to female founders because if you're in research, of course.

00;20;34;19 - 00;20;46;10
Speaker 2
Yeah. And to me, to be very clear, we're definitely not saying that like, you know, men, men are not helpful or anything like that. All stuff. No, no, no.

00;20;46;23 - 00;21;07;24
Speaker 3
It's just I think it's a different it's a it's a different world today also. You know, I think you know, I think everybody has become more collaborative, you know, even when you get even if even in conferences now, you know, you see everybody's talking to everybody. Everybody's reaching out. Everybody's, you know, LinkedIn buddies, congratulating people for making a new hire.

00;21;07;24 - 00;21;30;06
Speaker 3
That's impressive. Or, you know, in in, you know, in the case of, you know, the new funding that, you know, that you all are going to get, you'll see that, you know, there'll be hundreds of people will be responding on LinkedIn and sharing their congratulations, reaching out to, you know, to your founders. It's a different world today for sure.

00;21;31;08 - 00;21;48;19
Speaker 2
Okay. I did want to speak a little bit about the fact that you are quite international in the way that you in who you work with in terms of your global clients, but everyone in your team, everyone in your company is based in the US. But correct.

00;21;49;02 - 00;21;51;00
Speaker 3
Yes, everyone in our team is in the US.

00;21;51;12 - 00;21;52;03
Speaker 2
And how do you.

00;21;52;04 - 00;21;52;13
Speaker 3
So.

00;21;53;02 - 00;21;57;13
Speaker 2
Yeah, that's some people that work.

00;21;57;13 - 00;22;23;27
Speaker 3
You know, it doesn't I don't find it problematic really. We have a very, a very flexible team. I have people on both sides of the US so, you know, East Coast and West Coast. So you know, the ability to have conversations with Asia or Europe, it really never seems to be a problem. People just, you know, work their schedules.

00;22;23;27 - 00;22;25;29
Speaker 3
And I don't we don't really.

00;22;26;02 - 00;22;47;01
Speaker 2
And so some of it's not an issue, is it, because your like are, you know, the restrictions around COVID have lessened like are you traveling quite a bit has or are you completely virtual? Has that changed with COVID? Like, what was it like pre-COVID versus now in terms of the way that you're operating your business?

00;22;48;22 - 00;23;04;21
Speaker 3
Well, we're totally virtual now, which is a new thing. You know, it happened as a result of COVID, but we just like it. You know, it's just it's it gives us so much more time to so much more time in the day not to have to spend 3 hours commuting.

00;23;05;11 - 00;23;05;23
Speaker 2
Right.

00;23;06;04 - 00;23;26;19
Speaker 3
Think about it. It just it doesn't make sense. And, you know, we were a great office. We had a huge conference room. But to be perfectly honest, I think I could count on one hand clients that came up in the course of a year, and I could still have lunch with them or do the same thing by just traveling in on those days.

00;23;26;19 - 00;23;57;16
Speaker 3
So it didn't it doesn't really wasn't really making sense. We have you know, we have Zoom calls with the team on a regular basis, you know, several times a week. There are scheduling calls. So the team is included. I think, you know, some people have said it's really the democratization of the staffs because people who are you know, I think when we had an office, people who were not in the office probably felt like second class citizens were now the same.

00;23;58;03 - 00;24;24;09
Speaker 3
You know, I think I think that's helped really in some ways. So I think it's I think it's fine for the team. I think it depends on the kind of business that you have, whether you need an office or not. I think if we had a lot of hired a bunch of interns or something like that, I think we would probably have a small office near the, you know, the person that they were working for just so that they would have continuity of management and that kind of thing.

00;24;24;09 - 00;24;38;21
Speaker 3
But, you know, we have it we have a you know, our team has, you know, a lot of a lot of experience. And, you know, they work well in the roles that they have now, which is, you know, virtual.

00;24;39;13 - 00;24;51;18
Speaker 2
Yeah. And in terms of engagements with clients like it doesn't matter to them. Like you don't need to be, you know, as you said, if you're working with someone from Singapore, like you don't need to be flying over there.

00;24;52;07 - 00;25;16;11
Speaker 3
No. You know, back in the day, that was the part that I loved, you know, right up to Brazil, you know, that's where we started our international business up to Brazil overnight. You know, start working there the next day, you know, have coffee, have the Brazilian coffee, you know, the whole thing. And yeah, while we were working down there, I was there many times, but it isn't necessary anymore.

00;25;16;11 - 00;25;39;10
Speaker 3
No one really wants that. No one wants to pay for travel. You know, it's another one of those things that, you know, it becomes cost prohibitive in terms of, you know, the operations piece of of a job. I mean, if we needed to go, we would. But we haven't needed to go in a long time. I mean, the most most of the travel now is to visit clients or to go to a conference.

00;25;39;18 - 00;25;54;06
Speaker 3
It's right. The job really isn't. You know, it really doesn't need to be done anymore. Sadly, sadly, because I would like to be out there, you know, more, but. Yeah, no.

00;25;55;08 - 00;26;00;04
Speaker 2
Yeah. Well, I guess now you'll just have to go on vacation.

00;26;00;04 - 00;26;03;14
Speaker 3
I'm going to be I'm going to be in Toronto in four. So more coming up, your.

00;26;03;23 - 00;26;05;02
Speaker 2
Grades.

00;26;05;02 - 00;26;07;10
Speaker 3
And your company's hometown. So yeah.

00;26;07;11 - 00;26;10;13
Speaker 2
Oh, very cool. When are you arriving?

00;26;11;03 - 00;26;11;16
Speaker 3
Sunday.

00;26;12;08 - 00;26;14;11
Speaker 2
Okay. Well, we'll see you there.

00;26;15;13 - 00;26;19;17
Speaker 3
Yeah, well, you do you have a booth? Are we just be attending?

00;26;20;01 - 00;26;28;14
Speaker 2
No. Yeah, we've got a booth for upside and we're sponsors of steak. So we'll, we'll hopefully see what the booth and. Yeah. Will be as well.

00;26;29;00 - 00;26;30;29
Speaker 3
Yeah, I'll definitely stop by. That's awesome.

00;26;31;09 - 00;26;31;25
Speaker 2
Yeah.

00;26;32;01 - 00;26;32;18
Speaker 3
I can't wait.

00;26;33;19 - 00;26;44;28
Speaker 2
All right. I'm conscious of time and I'm just going to run us through some quick questions that we ask every guest. So as a founder, you came to double your budget tomorrow. What would you spend it on?

00;26;45;26 - 00;26;58;28
Speaker 3
Oh, I would buy a company for sure. I'm bringing your, you know, in my I don't know how I got to be this way, but, you know, the first thing that would come to my mind would be to buy something cool.

00;26;58;28 - 00;27;00;08
Speaker 2
What kind of company?

00;27;00;26 - 00;27;10;29
Speaker 3
I don't know. I don't I'm not sure, but yeah, I would definitely. It's something probably in the operations area. I don't know exactly what, but. Yeah, you're sure.

00;27;11;28 - 00;27;17;22
Speaker 2
Cool. And if you lost half of your budget tomorrow, what would have to go?

00;27;17;22 - 00;27;46;27
Speaker 3
You know, we've had time, so we had to pivot before, you know, not just during COVID 28 was scary. It was very scary. After 911, being in New York City, you know, at 911, I went to work the next day. It was very scary. Work was really slow to come, so we had to pivot. Yeah, I think, you know, we would have to, you know, tighten our belts and you know, maybe let some people go.

00;27;46;27 - 00;28;02;08
Speaker 3
I don't know. We've never had to do that. But we've always scraped through, you know, when times were when we had those really difficult times, we've always managed to scrape through. So I hope that we would have that same good fortune.

00;28;03;12 - 00;28;07;14
Speaker 2
Okay. And then finally, what's one piece of advice you'd like to leave the listeners with?

00;28;09;06 - 00;28;34;18
Speaker 3
You know, this industry has just given so given me so much that I think the one piece of advice that I would give is to remember that there is our respect, our human, and to respect them in terms of the kind of surveys that we ask them. And, you know, the thought that we put into the surveys and the length of the surveys, you know, quoting me.

00;28;34;19 - 00;28;46;17
Speaker 3
So, again, they're not a renewable resource. And, you know, I think we, you know, should take really good care of them. They're the livelihood of our business. Without respondents, we don't have anything.

00;28;46;17 - 00;28;51;11
Speaker 2
Awesome. Thank you so much. And I will see what Asmaa.

00;28;52;00 - 00;28;56;27
Speaker 3
Yeah, thank you. Thank you for this. It's been wonderful and I'm looking forward to that. You know, I'm so excited that you'll all be there.

00;28;57;18 - 00;28;59;01
Speaker 2
Amazing. Talk to you soon.

00;28;59;19 - 00;29;00;26
Speaker 3
Party soon. Thank you.

00;29;01;10 - 00;29;06;16
Speaker 2
Bye.

00;29;06;16 - 00;29;13;14
Speaker 1
Thanks for tuning in this week. Find us on LinkedIn at Digg Insights. And don't forget to hit subscribe for a weekly dose of fresh content.