00;00;22;07 - 00;00;47;24
Speaker 1
Welcome back to this week's episode of Dig In. I've got to say, this may be my favorite interviewee or person to join us yet, especially given how much I've seen their brands out and about with the half marathon going on in Toronto this weekend. Today I've got Stephen Nelson, a.k.a. Styx. I'll refer to him as Styx for the rest of the podcast.

00;00;47;24 - 00;00;55;18
Speaker 1
He's the vice president of Cult Indoctrination at Liquid Death. I've got him on the pod Styx. How are you doing today?

00;00;55;27 - 00;00;57;18
Speaker 2
I'm great. Thank you for having me.

00;00;58;02 - 00;00;58;25
Speaker 1
Beautiful. Yeah.

00;00;59;05 - 00;01;12;17
Speaker 2
And we're based in California. I live in Colorado, and I'm not on the road, which is odd. So it's nice to be home. So thank you for having me. I really appreciate it.

00;01;13;06 - 00;01;19;05
Speaker 1
Yeah. Well, thank you so much for joining us. Can you tell the listeners why your nickname is Styx?

00;01;21;06 - 00;01;40;25
Speaker 2
Okay, God, I'll give you the elevator. I'll give you the elevator speech. I started my career, actually, as a snowbird who developer. And I only tell you that because I spent a bunch of time in the factories in Asia and it was so hot over there in the factories to work festivals, I would wear shorts. And so when I walked out door, I look at Jiminy Cricket.

00;01;41;24 - 00;02;04;12
Speaker 2
I'm over six feet tall, slightly skinny legs. And my boss basically just yelled out, wonder, how do you balance my sticks? And he spelled it that way. He wrote down the words. And by the time I got back to the States, it was for me sticks and it stuck with me for a quarter century now. I love how it adds up to the very short version, but that's essentially it was not a form of flattery, let's put it that way.

00;02;05;18 - 00;02;08;25
Speaker 1
So does it feel really weird? Does anyone in your life call you Stephen?

00;02;10;10 - 00;02;32;02
Speaker 2
Ironically, I'm from Minneapolis. Originally the name was given to me after I left town. So Stephen is what my mother calls my formal name, and usually I get called if I'm in trouble. But my working life sticks is what everyone calls me. And ironically, at Liquid Def, we have like seven seats. Here's the funny part. I was employing, like, number six.

00;02;32;18 - 00;02;51;01
Speaker 2
Like, number five's name is Steve. So he got Steve out that and the poor bastard gets all of the stuff that's coming. He's a sales guy and he gets all the things that are aimed at me that to flip through, which I feel so bad once I get blown up, is how people figured out my email but worked for Steve at like we got this gets blown up.

00;02;51;03 - 00;03;14;00
Speaker 1
So oh poor Steve. But sick story. I love that. Okay. I'm going to dove into liquid death in a second. There's so much to talk about. But I do want to tell the listeners a little bit about your background. I know you've had some pretty cool gigs. Do you mind talking us through what you've been up to over the last decade just with.

00;03;14;06 - 00;03;36;04
Speaker 2
Well, yeah, I went from being a bootlegger over to this brand and was actually on the come up in order to renew 20 years ago called Red Bull. And what happened is one of my athletes, my snowboard athletes became one of the first North American riders. And through him, basically, I got the tap saying, hey, we're watching us.

00;03;36;20 - 00;03;59;03
Speaker 2
Would you be interested in coming aboard? And of course, I had no idea what Red Bull was at all. Know how is history? So it was an amazing ride. Red Bull still like family to me. I learned so much there. Dietrick, the owner, still the only owner. He is a mastermind like what? I learned so many of the principles a lot of brands try to copy from my Red Bull days what he taught us.

00;03;59;04 - 00;04;17;14
Speaker 2
And I was very fortunate because one of the excuses we never had is we didn't have money because yeah, we, you know, I think I'm the only person that's ever expensed the Snowcat for my own use. Like I really expense the whole Snowcat. And so my point is his his only thing was don't let money get in the way either.

00;04;17;14 - 00;04;32;16
Speaker 2
So you could just dream big, I guess, is the bottom line. And then I went from there to this the beer brand called Taps Blue Ribbon, which at one point was one of the top four brands for sure. And what the U.S. and it's kind of flood going but I went over there but the opportunity was too great to kind of resuscitate this brand.

00;04;32;17 - 00;04;51;18
Speaker 2
It wasn't owned by one of the big boys or girls. We're going to look at it. So I was able to really run and do a lot of things I couldn't do at Red Bull because are certain great brands we couldn't do and help build that brand. I had a wonderful team both places I guess I would never, ever, ever claim because I part of it I'd like to think I was a cog in the wheel, but I'm not going to claim I was surrounded by some really talented people.

00;04;52;02 - 00;05;17;01
Speaker 2
And then fast forward because of snowboarding and skateboarding, punk rock and metal and all the things that I've gotten us involved in the brands. I was introduced to my stereo, the founder of Liquid that this is Kevin, another guy when we met and he and I chatted for about 3 hours on the phone like, wow. And he was really it was he's a student of the game in many ways and said, Hey, I really love your work at Pops and Red Bull like this, what I'm trying to build here.

00;05;17;01 - 00;05;35;17
Speaker 2
And I was absolutely intrigued and that's because we had so much in common. And he thinks the way I do, where we want to poke the bear and have fun when we're doing it. And here we are. You know, that was 2019 and now we went from six of us to 100 and over 160 employees. So it's one.

00;05;35;17 - 00;05;41;17
Speaker 1
Year now and you're now valued at 700 million. That came out, I think, couple of weeks ago.

00;05;41;17 - 00;05;59;25
Speaker 2
Well, you know, that was that that's very flattering. But that really doesn't mean anything. It doesn't mean it's what it means is it's more work for us because you've got so many investors and so many people expecting so much out of you. When people throw those numbers are I think people forget, like when we do a raise, this money's not going in our pockets.

00;05;59;25 - 00;06;16;28
Speaker 2
Like it's not like or worth that. But then they're coming with that comes the expectations. And I think that Mike does a fantastic job of letting investors know many employees, you know, hey, this is what to expect. But we are go time right now where we are as a brand. It is. It is. Put your head down, strap it on.

00;06;17;09 - 00;06;36;15
Speaker 2
It's time to go. And we had some wonderful meetings this last week. We have a lot of things coming down the pike in 2023, which is very exciting. But with that, there's a lot of expectation and so a lot of it does come down to marriage expectations, but we don't have time to mess around like it's anyone is an employee or if we have a vendor or whatever.

00;06;36;15 - 00;06;54;17
Speaker 2
If you can't keep up with us, I'm sorry, we just we got to move on. We got to go. Yeah, that's where it's at. And that's that can be very I guess it's a stress on that same sort of stress. Is it just I live off the action and the movement, but it can be a lot, you know, and we're management thus far.

00;06;54;19 - 00;07;06;12
Speaker 2
And that evaluation, that's great. People have all the confidence in the world. We're ready to go. But again, with that comes all the extra pressure. But you better be now, you know, that kind of thing. And it's.

00;07;06;12 - 00;07;07;08
Speaker 1
Totally.

00;07;07;22 - 00;07;16;20
Speaker 2
Not so yeah, it's very flattering. We're glad of that. But that doesn't mean anything. All that means is that we've got a big row to hoe coming up. Yeah. You know.

00;07;16;26 - 00;07;38;19
Speaker 1
I mean, I'm curious, you and your younger crew so fascinating. Like, especially someone in marketing, you've worked on some, like, iconic brands. I'm Canadian, so PBR is like water to us. We love PBR. But in terms of, you know, you talked about sitting down with the founder of Liquid Death and you were so captivated by the story he told you, like what was that story?

00;07;38;24 - 00;07;41;19
Speaker 1
Or like what was like the vision? But he kind of sold you on.

00;07;42;02 - 00;08;02;01
Speaker 2
Honestly, what stuck with me the most was he was really he uses Red Bull all the time, in example, and on something where he's like basically said to me and this is sort of the aha moment for me, if you are on to something is it why is it everything? It's crappy for you has the most fun marketing.

00;08;02;20 - 00;08;20;26
Speaker 2
Why is it the Skittles Doritos? You know, he used energy drinks as an example and you know, I don't and I'm not saying some alumni, but like you get Red Bull, which actually has some benefits to it or use it. Right. And then the rest is just sugar water really. I mean, it really is. I mean, Red Bull impacts the performance based aspects of it.

00;08;20;26 - 00;08;40;24
Speaker 2
They will go back and like, you know, with they've even have these training facilities, etc., etc. That's great. For another time. But my point is Mike was like water, like it's no one said anything. It's the healthiest thing you can consume on Earth, you know? And why not? That's the other thing is bringing like focus to this problem with Fox, which I have.

00;08;40;25 - 00;09;01;23
Speaker 2
I'm embarrassed to say I knew little about it before, like. Yeah. And this pressing problem for all of us is such I mean, I hate to say it, we're almost hosed at this point, but it's so bad. And if we can put our money where our mouth is, we have three charitable partners to which we literally give 10% of our profits to to clean up the oceans of plastic.

00;09;02;10 - 00;09;20;05
Speaker 2
So we're providing a premium product, which is Canada, Austria, which ironically, where Red Bull is headquartered and its premium meaning goes right from the ground in Canada solely isn't touched by anyone. It's that pure all the water purity tests are on our website. You can look at yourself, but really taking that going, you know what? We're going to do that.

00;09;20;07 - 00;09;37;20
Speaker 2
We're going to make it okay. Like it's cool to drink water like it. It's like you have to worry about your sober person or designated driver. You have this candy here. It's like a placebo effect. Like you're also more part of the group. We just have a glass of water. Right. And think about even some of our investors like Metallica's investor.

00;09;37;20 - 00;09;52;25
Speaker 2
I mean, James, the lead singer, is sober. I mean this to him, like to have a candy just to be an ass. Can't like that kind of thing. But we're pushing a really good message here. I drink more stuff. The plastic, you know, more your thirst is obviously we say, but, you know, we should be in every nursery school.

00;09;52;25 - 00;10;13;15
Speaker 2
We should be every nursing home. You know, there's no excuse with that. There should be endless opportunities, which is back to what I said earlier in the conversation, that it's a lot like we have a lot there's the really the biggest hurdle you're going to find is people all of a sudden they're used to getting those shrink wrap 30 packs from a gas station that are a razor thin margins.

00;10;13;15 - 00;10;34;22
Speaker 2
The retailers hate them. It takes up all the floor space. Right. And it's good plastic for the landfills. Right. So people look at, what, two bucks for a can of water. You know what? My keeping knows I been there, done that with Redbull. I mean, there is this eight ounce can here. I'm having my coffee this morning. How dare you sell an eight ounce liquid for $2?

00;10;34;27 - 00;10;57;13
Speaker 2
That was 20 years ago. Look, a rebel is now. Yeah. And so the biggest pushback we have is just pricing. People are used to getting that shrink wrap 35 for four bucks, whatever it is, and appreciate it again. Oh, my God. Like, you know, I get it. But you're paying for premium. As I tell people, you can't expect Tito's vodka for, well, vodka pricing.

00;10;57;13 - 00;11;14;25
Speaker 2
It doesn't quit. So do you want to premium me or don't you? You know, but if you look at the way we do, whether it is our socials or what site, our merch we cross, our T's and dot our eyes through is thoughtful. We don't let anyone user logo, we don't slap it on its have been slapped on a banner but we're very, very careful which is the brand.

00;11;14;25 - 00;11;28;27
Speaker 2
But hey, if you're wants great, we love it. But we're going to let people decide for themselves what means to them. But again, for people look at it, we're still at the education phase. Yeah, we have maybe got that evaluation, but from a distance people think we're of a crappy energy drink or a beer, you know? Well, what?

00;11;28;28 - 00;11;31;05
Speaker 2
So I think I have.

00;11;31;13 - 00;11;55;14
Speaker 1
Yeah, I think I mentioned those and they didn't provide any context at the beginning and when I was interviewing you, but it was the half marathon in Toronto this past weekend. And like in every single, a bunch of my friends ran it and in every single shot they're all like holding up a liquid that can. I don't know if they were like sponsors for the event or something like that, but all of my friends were constantly holding on.

00;11;55;14 - 00;12;15;25
Speaker 1
And I remember like honestly just on Instagram scrolling through and thinking, Oh, they're drinking before the event. Then I was like, Oh no, that's Liquid Death Cab. And it's so cool how it doesn't matter. Like they look so normally with water, there's just no branding. It's almost like the anti brand. There's been like no attention to detail in terms of how you brand that.

00;12;15;25 - 00;12;38;18
Speaker 1
And it was just really cool to be like everyone's so proud of this can of, of water that they're holding up. I thought that was really, really awesome. It kind of aligns with the conversation I wanted to have around this idea of like, your title is so badass, like cult indoctrination. Essentially, you're the head of marketing. What is that?

00;12;38;18 - 00;12;42;08
Speaker 1
What does that mean to you? This whole idea of cult indoctrination.

00;12;42;20 - 00;13;03;27
Speaker 2
Honestly, it's it's getting cans in here because at the end of the day, you can do all of this marketing the world and you can have your logo everywhere. But until people try to sell, they have that can in their hand. It really is really it falls on deaf ears. There's too much noise out there nowadays. I mean, social media, good or bad, it's here to stay.

00;13;04;18 - 00;13;34;23
Speaker 2
It's really like people have no attention span and they want instant gratification. And my whole thing is, is my team with this very eclectic group of people that I've been able to assemble thanks to. Yeah, it's our job is to make it so like you have that can it's it's bigger than a liquid you know it's like a it's like if someone, a man or woman has an accessory, you know, like they have that arms that, Hey, I know this man, I'm cooler because I have this my hair, right?

00;13;35;03 - 00;13;49;12
Speaker 2
But it's exposing the branding in a credible manner. So whenever I always tell people like, What do you do? It's like my job is to make it so our sales people are not selling, they're taking orders like we have to have this brand in here that is the job right for people that like they're part of our cult.

00;13;49;12 - 00;13;54;10
Speaker 2
You can do that. You can sell your soul to us. We have a liquid up country club. You literally sell your family.

00;13;54;16 - 00;13;56;23
Speaker 1
What is this? Liquid death country club?

00;13;57;01 - 00;14;02;02
Speaker 2
Yeah. Go and look. And we literally look on our website. We have you can literally join our country club.

00;14;02;15 - 00;14;03;05
Speaker 1
It's so cool.

00;14;03;11 - 00;14;24;18
Speaker 2
You can get first dibs on exclusive offers, exclusive merch. We also have we have this partnership with Live Nation now and we actually will do a build out at certain festivals. There is an actual physical building, country club where you can be admitted, get out of the fridge, go and have a drink where you have a string quartet playing slayer in there and we're just have fun, you know.

00;14;24;22 - 00;14;41;09
Speaker 2
So yeah. So it's even bringing it closer. It's the country club, you know. But at the end of the day, my job is to expose the brand to people in so many different walks of life. It's just it's not just music, art, action, sports, all the things you expect. It's like everything, health and wellness. So education, we're doing a lot.

00;14;41;16 - 00;15;05;20
Speaker 2
We got more and more schools now getting us up to have it in the cafeteria, which is why. So that's essentially it's getting it's literally touch points, getting cancer, physical hands, for example, all through in a credible manner. And I'll leave you with this. When people say what, what what is your strength? It's like I will credibly integrate the brand in the scenes that other brands try to buy their way in credibly is the key to.

00;15;05;20 - 00;15;21;11
Speaker 2
That's what I do differently. That's my own personal thing. What sticks out is that I will credibly get us involved around events, major events, whether it's Coachella, X-Games Fashion Week, New York City, Art Basel. We are going to be there. I'm just not paying to be there. Does that make sense?

00;15;21;20 - 00;15;23;02
Speaker 1
No, it totally makes sense. I mean.

00;15;23;22 - 00;15;24;08
Speaker 2
What I do.

00;15;24;20 - 00;15;30;00
Speaker 1
Walk me through an example of that. Like, what does that look like in your world? Like credibly integrating the brands.

00;15;30;18 - 00;15;49;14
Speaker 2
So, okay, Art Basel, we actually have a great team. We have a plan in place. So it's not just willy nilly. We're throwing it together. We have a director of art who's on my team. We've got a full market manager in Miami. We've got the sales manager, local steel sales manager, and we've got the manager for all of Florida, and then our director of marketing will be up there as well.

00;15;50;04 - 00;16;09;08
Speaker 2
There's no one event like Coachella. It's going to be ancillary little parties, but it's usually to make connections to the brands. So let's say for sake of argument Beats by Dre is doing an event, or if we're at Art Basel Vice magazine or something with them, we are literally have products and all these events will happen in little galleries.

00;16;09;08 - 00;16;26;18
Speaker 2
One of the art shows, our product will be there. I'm just not ready to check because no one can use our logo. Why am I going to pay to put our logo somewhere? Right. You need water. Everybody needs more. So 99% of the time, people like they're like ten grand for me to be there. I'm like, no, like, first of all, a palette of our product is several thousand dollars in my pocket and you need water.

00;16;26;26 - 00;16;44;08
Speaker 2
And by the way, you don't want to be picking plastic caps out of the ground the next day, which we're going to choke a dolphin. So do you want Brownie? You're know, it's very simple. And here's the other part. Our soldiers have exploded. We have been at the heels of Monster and Redbull. We surpass Coke, Pepsi, Gatorade, everyone.

00;16;44;14 - 00;17;00;20
Speaker 2
And we're three years old. Right. If you post and tag us and let me know and we repost, that's only going to help you. That's I mean, that's all. It's a win win. So it does matter because our soldiers are massive. Our followings very, very rich. Right. So that's what I kind of table with something that anyone needs.

00;17;00;22 - 00;17;19;09
Speaker 2
It's a healthy alternative for everyone is at these events and we can help each other if we get some kick ass content on it. It's great, but I never leave with that. Well, if we're going to do this, we have to have content like because if I get another picture of our camp, what sells, I'm going to scream like, I don't know why people sell me that, like proof of like if they're holding in their hand or it's in a bar in a garbage can.

00;17;19;09 - 00;17;20;20
Speaker 2
Like what? Like.

00;17;20;21 - 00;17;22;00
Speaker 1
Thank you so much.

00;17;22;00 - 00;17;40;01
Speaker 2
Have a look. You have a look in our creative like have a look at our our socials. Like there's a method to the madness here. Yeah. What's in a nutshell? My gaze changes all the time, but again, be water. I'm like when I work in alcohol or even I hate to say it, energy drinks being very polarizing for people.

00;17;40;13 - 00;17;46;07
Speaker 2
Yeah, I'm water. And you have people who take the death part too seriously.

00;17;47;16 - 00;17;47;25
Speaker 1
Right?

00;17;48;08 - 00;17;57;10
Speaker 2
Like, relax. It's death. The plastic murder or things like we're not. Don't come at us with the occult or sacrifice or something like that. We do it that we won't touch that, you know.

00;17;57;10 - 00;17;57;26
Speaker 1
Well, yeah.

00;17;57;26 - 00;18;00;22
Speaker 2
And I obviously don't get it at all if you're going to do that.

00;18;01;06 - 00;18;17;22
Speaker 1
You know. Yeah, I think that was the other thing I was going to ask about it. This idea of like cult marketing or building a cult or indoctrinating people into your cult. Like I was going to ask, do you get any negative feedback about that and how do you sort of handle it?

00;18;17;22 - 00;18;37;14
Speaker 2
To be honest with you, we don't even engage. We don't even yeah, it's very it's very hit or miss. It's not anything that's like super. But there's just been a few things where it's just well, I feel and I just don't even really going to go over there like we, you know, if you're flying and they start comparing back and screenshot and stuff and it's just get lonely, just don't even reply.

00;18;37;18 - 00;18;56;12
Speaker 2
Like we just like go. And that is for one thing and anyone who's been a part of a brand on the come up as soon as you get a target on your back or you start having some success, the haters come out. And I always say that I'm a mentor for the Wheat School of Business at the University of Colorado, and I tell my students that having some haters isn't a bad thing.

00;18;56;14 - 00;19;15;21
Speaker 2
That means you're doing something that they can't build or haven't done. And that's why, like you did, you just don't want to waste your time like with negative energy. I mean, I just learned just my personal like I just I saw myself with positive people. I have the best group of friends ever. I just want negativity and it's just why engage.

00;19;15;21 - 00;19;31;25
Speaker 2
And unfortunately, this day and age, people are looking for a fight, you know, and the way we look at it is that we have a people attack us. Every time we do a post on something, we almost take turns doing the replies, the people. Sometimes we never do it in a mean, condescending, arrogant manner. It will just make you look silly.

00;19;32;11 - 00;19;51;05
Speaker 2
Yeah. It's going to be like we're going to apply and make sense of you're going to come at us, just be prepared to get undressed because we have to be very, very, very, very creative people in here that will absolutely find a chink in the armor. And it's arm, you know, so I don't tell people we should do that, but but as we grow, we're getting more and more of that push back.

00;19;51;05 - 00;19;53;05
Speaker 2
And again, I think people are just jealous, you know?

00;19;53;10 - 00;20;12;14
Speaker 1
Yeah, it's and I mean, you have to I mean, you do kind of have to laugh at that because you're selling water. It's not as if you're creating a cult around something that's bad for you. I mean, this is this is a way for people to hydrate. I think. I feel like there's so many different routes I could go down.

00;20;12;14 - 00;20;31;08
Speaker 1
I'm so interested. But like one thing I do kind of want to go back to is this vision for the brand. Like how did you come up with murder, your thirst or liquid death? Like, I know it wasn't used specifically that or maybe it was, I don't know. But how did how did that idea kind of come to you or to your founder?

00;20;31;17 - 00;20;45;18
Speaker 2
Well, that gets more of a mike question. I mean, the funny part is people don't realize he actually when thinking how he could and this word is so overused now and I'm just so sick of it. What are how to disrupt an industry, so to speak?

00;20;45;18 - 00;20;46;00
Speaker 1
Right.

00;20;46;01 - 00;21;07;06
Speaker 2
Well, Mike originally was going to try Brandy, believe it or not. I don't even know. I don't think I've ever tried. Bring it in. But like no one has done anything in that. Yeah. Mike's whole thing with this liquid that like it was literally was not the plastic and where here at this because I frankly before I met Mike I used to say we're going to murder hamburgers, we're going to murder.

00;21;07;06 - 00;21;26;26
Speaker 2
And we just you're just going to feverishly take care of it. That's again, don't get hung up on the murder thing, but it's a figure of speech that's already there. Straight out the plastic. And those are two hashtags we're going to catch that got the plastic right. But that would be more of a mike question where his aha moment of, hey, I'm going to use this as a tagline, but he's an ex creative.

00;21;27;04 - 00;21;49;02
Speaker 2
You know, he's been sitting on that bridge for quite some time, you know. But you gotta remember words like murder and death are very, very polarizing in their own way. But the flip side is people almost I mean, look how popular school logos and treatments and things are for people, whether it's tattoos or rings, jewelry, you know, it's this word, but they want to feel a little edgy, you know, kind of thing, you know?

00;21;49;05 - 00;21;49;12
Speaker 1
Yeah.

00;21;49;22 - 00;22;09;14
Speaker 2
Murder and death, right? We don't really, you know, come on now. You know, there's just people who do want to do that. Back to your question of like cult can have a negative connotation, you know, but it's also like to be very positive to participate. I'm sure there's nonprofits I don't even know about. They call them cult something and it's about their beach cleanups or something.

00;22;09;19 - 00;22;17;02
Speaker 2
You know, I'm not going to go, oh, you're a cult and you've clear plastic. Now, I'm going to stay away from you because you use the word cult.

00;22;17;02 - 00;22;49;04
Speaker 1
Yeah. It's like it's about knowing that there's nuance. But I think that's going back to your point about, you know, the haters or people who are taking the word cult out of context. I think it's good that you guys are sticking to your guidance because that's what makes a that's what makes a strong brand is being able to kind of like live live the brand sort of values, so to speak, or like live with the brands purports to sort of stand for.

00;22;49;04 - 00;23;03;09
Speaker 1
So I think that that I think that that makes sense. You're going to mention that you take turns. I mean, how do you and you also mentioned you have some really interesting people on the team. How do you think about growing that team or creating the marketing team?

00;23;03;20 - 00;23;26;01
Speaker 2
Well, my whole thing is that I've and Mike is back in sports and it's worked is that instead of taking it's like cycle, people have recycled ideas, you know what I mean? Like there's some folks that are at major brands that I do a fantastic job of bouncing brand of brand. And it's like, I don't I don't need that.

00;23;26;01 - 00;23;45;29
Speaker 2
What I need is someone who's had a hand on the wheel or someone's going to bring a fresh lens. So I'm all right. Marketing team. I have a hip hop tour manager, I have bass player for Ozzy Osborne, I have a pro skater, I have a pro snowboarder, I have an adult actress. I have different people from different walks of life that give me a different lens.

00;23;45;29 - 00;24;03;08
Speaker 2
I mean, some of them never open Google Docs until I hired them, but they're the hardest workers because they want I mean, they never had benefits before. They don't have equity before. Like, it's crazy, right? But they're like you. You give people enough rope to hang themselves and they're like, please. I mean, it's so much fun to see.

00;24;03;29 - 00;24;23;00
Speaker 2
Every week we have our marketing needs. They just their one upping each other in a good way. No, it's not competitive, but it's like in a form, like everyone cheering for each other. But they're giving me a fresh perspective because if you are X, we give an example and I'm picking on because I have a lot of friends there, but if you're an X Nike person, I'm going to dig like ten times harder to really find out what you did.

00;24;23;11 - 00;24;40;28
Speaker 2
Were you just or did you really help steer the ship over there, whatever program, whatever silo you are in? Because a lot of people come out flexing, oh, I'm X this brand, that brand. Great. But what did you do? That's what I need to find out. What how did you move? Because what I don't need and this is the analogy I always use, right?

00;24;41;12 - 00;25;04;23
Speaker 2
You know, I don't need a thermometer, I need a thermostat. Thermometers just measure the heat. Thermostat change it. Right. That's what I need. Okay, so I'm going to dig really, I want to point out. So I'm very, very picky about who comes out, but it comes as needed. Right? Be asking the job from anywhere. I just I just know if I need someone to fill something that's way up now.

00;25;04;23 - 00;25;12;03
Speaker 1
I was going to ask you that like, how do you find these people if they come from so many different backgrounds and sort of walks of life?

00;25;12;13 - 00;25;29;18
Speaker 2
My network, it's like I'm looking for just comes down the road and that's the thing. And I probably my number one asset is, is my Rolodex and I tend to incredibly integrating it comes into friendships. I don't namedrop. If I tell you a name, it's because they're a friend of mine. I'll pick up the phone. It's like, Oh, that's.

00;25;29;25 - 00;25;47;03
Speaker 2
And there's so many name droppers out there. And look at floss and all this, like, no, it's legit. And that's the way it is. I'm not bragging or, you know, it's just a fact, you know? Yeah. So I just go out there. I mean, I'll make sure Mike wants to always talk to them himself. Don't get me wrong, he's not like why we go hire that person.

00;25;47;15 - 00;26;10;21
Speaker 2
He wants to make sure it's a fit for the brand. Right. And I haven't missed yet. And so I will basically look to what what are we missing out? What parts of it? So let's use the skaters example I haven't seen Chris cool thrasher skater the year he's not a liquid hot sponsored athlete, but he is very well known and his people don't always win woodworking and building.

00;26;11;02 - 00;26;27;13
Speaker 2
He's going to see all of these crazy YouTube channels of woodworking. He's doing stuff for the veterans, you know, armed forces like any of the police and fire like Chris is leading the charge on that for us. What exactly? That's pro skaters is know those people need water like everyone else does and frankly a lot more underserved. So that's great.

00;26;27;13 - 00;26;45;16
Speaker 2
I have another woman. Her name is Generosity. She's the lead singer and founder of the band The Bomb Pops. She's been doing a lot with, like, women's shelters, beach cleanups. I do. I expect us to be in park rock and skateboarding. Absolutely. Yes. Incredibly integrated into those seats. Awesome. We know that. What else do you have? But they are like giving us for getting out when we need to do this.

00;26;45;16 - 00;27;11;28
Speaker 2
We do that versus I hate to say it, some people kind of plug and play. I don't need. Yeah, right. I mean, people are bringing fresh ideas to the table. What are we missing? What part of the society are we not exposed like we'd have to? And there's still so much more that needs to happen. But that's essentially how I got the team and Mike has backed me and I've never been able to do this in my career where I've been able to cherry pick people and go, I want you, you you're building this machine, you know, and it's just working.

00;27;11;28 - 00;27;20;25
Speaker 1
That's so cool. And like, do they have to I know you're not based in in California, but are they all based anywhere in the US?

00;27;20;25 - 00;27;42;25
Speaker 2
Basically, I don't care where you live, to be honest. You've been working for meetings here and there we get together, but I'd say most of the teams in L.A. but one was in Tahoe, one was in Brooklyn, one was here in Colorado. Actually, I'm trying to think where else one lives in Carlsbad. Like it doesn't.

00;27;42;29 - 00;27;43;11
Speaker 1
Matter.

00;27;43;22 - 00;28;02;19
Speaker 2
Where it is. It's kind of like when I was hired at Red Bull. I mean, I've never non-negotiables. Like, I live here in the side of a mountain in Colorado and I figured out work like 20 years ago. And trust me, I missed a lot of jobs because these brands were so short sighted where they were like, No, you have to literally listen.

00;28;02;25 - 00;28;13;24
Speaker 2
Like Every brand of work is based in California. I'll be there a couple of times a month. You don't want me in the office anyway. You're not meeting down with me around the prairie, dogging everyone like you want me in the field. That word?

00;28;13;26 - 00;28;14;12
Speaker 1
Yeah.

00;28;14;24 - 00;28;22;06
Speaker 2
People sniffing out opportunities, building the set, rolodex. This what? This group of folks that are making things happen.

00;28;22;15 - 00;28;24;25
Speaker 1
Which will then benefit the brand anyways, right.

00;28;24;25 - 00;28;41;16
Speaker 2
So so a lot goes into my budget is key obviously, but I travel entertainment for those who don't know what that is. But that's I don't care. And that's the voice that my my boss from Rebel gave me. And it is still what I use to this day. What you when it first day started and this again, this is the rocket ship, Red Bull.

00;28;41;16 - 00;28;58;28
Speaker 2
It's just like a long drive is crazy. This 20 some years ago and he's like, here's the deal. I'm going to give you a deadline or something. I don't care what you do. So whatever you do, go, goes. I don't care. Have it done by that day. That's it. I'm never going to ask you where you are. Okay, beautiful.

00;28;58;29 - 00;29;09;03
Speaker 2
Leave me alone for micromanagement. Secondly, I'm never going to look at your expense report, so don't want me. That's all he said. Why would I ever break that trust, right?

00;29;09;03 - 00;29;09;20
Speaker 1
Yeah.

00;29;09;28 - 00;29;12;19
Speaker 2
I'm never going to look at your expenses, ever. I'm just going to prove it.

00;29;12;27 - 00;29;17;12
Speaker 1
And I trust you. Yeah, I trust you until you give me a reason not to trust you.

00;29;18;03 - 00;29;36;18
Speaker 2
And that's the same with my squad. No, there is a learning curve for some of them who've never had a cortical job before. But, you know, look back to Chris. I want to go skiing, go film. He's still a pro. Like, it's got to decorate. He's got his own shoe. He's got this. I don't care. But I do need do you need to be on every Wednesday call unless you tell me otherwise.

00;29;36;18 - 00;29;39;02
Speaker 2
And there are expectations for each one of the team.

00;29;39;04 - 00;29;39;16
Speaker 1
Yeah.

00;29;40;00 - 00;29;42;05
Speaker 2
It all knocked them out of the park at this point, you know.

00;29;42;21 - 00;30;12;17
Speaker 1
I'm happy I have such a boring question for you, but, like, I'm thinking so I manage a marketing team, granted. Very different industry, very different thing that we're selling. But I just think about onboarding and I'm like getting people accustomed to our brand or brands like how do you see you're cherry picking these? Like amazing, really cool people who who have different experiences that they're bringing to the table.

00;30;12;17 - 00;30;24;02
Speaker 1
But how do you make sure that they're sort of like representing the brand in their content the right way in? Like the way like I'm just wondering how that works from an onboarding perspective.

00;30;24;02 - 00;30;34;20
Speaker 2
Well, I mean, I just I put together like a deck. It kind of lays out what the vision is just about how we consider these different scenes, so to speak.

00;30;34;29 - 00;30;35;12
Speaker 1
Yeah.

00;30;35;26 - 00;30;52;20
Speaker 2
For the fish are, you know, so whether it could be culinary, of course it could be. You know, you've got you've got mascot, you've got action sports, you've got art, you've got music. But within those, there's things you could break down even further. Fashion, right? All those things. Everyone needs water. That's why there's no excuse. I don't care.

00;30;52;20 - 00;31;03;10
Speaker 2
I mean, so I whenever there's someone comes on, the onboarding is just kind of explaining. But some of them been just as consultants to staff just to see how they fit in with the team.

00;31;03;10 - 00;31;03;26
Speaker 1
Right.

00;31;04;07 - 00;31;24;26
Speaker 2
Delivering it. And then I put up a few guardrails just as far as like, okay, great, you're going to do that event, but don't get my logo. You know, or hey, here's the hashtag the tag, but it's, I try to be a gentle transition, but then it's go time your need and I'm always open book. I always prided myself and everything a full voice mail.

00;31;24;26 - 00;31;43;10
Speaker 2
My inbox is usually clean, outstanding every day as best I can. I always get back to people and I think that's part of it too, is that you got to lead by example. Yeah, yeah. My bodies that are full voicemails, I I'll call them out. I mean, listen, I think that you're just so wanted and you're so cool that you have a full voice, but you're not a rapper.

00;31;43;10 - 00;31;53;26
Speaker 2
Okay, so that you have your zero organizational skills. So you're actually kind of lazy like don't have a full voicemail, right? And I mean that. I don't care who you are, right?

00;31;54;17 - 00;31;58;00
Speaker 1
I mean, that would stress me out to no end. I can't even imagine.

00;31;58;05 - 00;32;11;16
Speaker 2
I've never had a voice in all my life. But to me that shows you completely unorganized, like figure out, get it together, you know? Yeah, would be a strike if I ever like we can bring someone to my team that I know very well. And they had a full voice. No YouTube red flag. How do we get.

00;32;12;03 - 00;32;34;25
Speaker 1
I mean, I think that's I honestly think that's kind of fair. And I feel like, as I asked you that question about onboarding, I almost like in my head answered the question, like, I feel like your brand is so strong, like it's so singular in terms of message, in terms of like look and feel that there's almost like the lines become.

00;32;35;18 - 00;32;55;19
Speaker 1
It becomes easier to color within the lines from a brand perspective, if that makes sense. Like it. These people can add to the brand in terms of the way that it operates in the world and in different industries. But like it's less nerve racking to have to put it in other people's hands because it is so specific and like so well, sort of curated.

00;32;55;20 - 00;32;56;14
Speaker 1
So that makes sense.

00;32;56;28 - 00;32;58;01
Speaker 2
Yeah. Yeah.

00;32;59;17 - 00;33;20;03
Speaker 1
All right. I'm conscious of time. We don't have a ton of time left. I feel like I could talk to you forever. But let's move on to sort of where we think the brand is going or the business is going, like what's on what's on the docket for 2023? Anything that you can share with us?

00;33;21;02 - 00;33;44;28
Speaker 2
Oh, it's there's still so much we could do in retail. Yeah. Okay. It's kind of using these building blocks. And the Whole Foods was one of the first ones to really jump on a partner with us. And you get in there Whole Foods and you do well, there are they're very, very strict. For those who haven't done reviews of Whole Foods, they have very, very huge expectations and we've been able to kill it.

00;33;44;28 - 00;34;04;22
Speaker 2
Now, my hat's off to our sales team. They are savages, the women and men that we have on our team. Their expectations are gnarly because there is so much opportunity. So the big thing is we need to be everywhere. Like we can be everywhere. We're water, you know, cause some people say we can't be everything to everyone. Food, water.

00;34;04;27 - 00;34;23;00
Speaker 2
Okay, water. Cool, right? Yeah. So not only that, we're putting we're having fun with it, but we're also back putting the money where our mouth is and cleaning, trying to clean up the oceans, trying to help, too. So that would be the other part is, you know, we're getting a lot of inquiries internationally. The world's a really big place.

00;34;23;01 - 00;34;48;01
Speaker 2
Right. And look at Red Bull now. Rebels like British Empire, the sun never sets on Red Bull. We can get it in Nairobi. You can get in Osaka. You can get it in Johannesburg. You can get it in Sydney. You can get it in Chad, you know. So that is what Brand wouldn't want to do that, right? You get all this is the number one most recognized brand in the world, but it makes sense, you know, like they're everywhere, right?

00;34;48;09 - 00;35;07;06
Speaker 2
That would be the next move, too. But that's got for later time. There's a lot of planning you have to go into that. But I am I lived in Australia for a couple of years of my life. I'm getting my buddies are just lining up. My mates might go and they want it so bad because they're brand guys, you know, one of them's the CEO of Serving Australia.

00;35;07;06 - 00;35;24;10
Speaker 2
They're dying for us to be down there, right? So it's ripe for the picking, but we want to be smart about it. We're not going to spread ourselves 3 billion miles wide and half a centimeter there. We want to do this right. So we're having I mean, right out of fact, Canada is slowly happening. So we do we offer our still in our sparkling.

00;35;24;10 - 00;35;54;21
Speaker 2
No merch up there yet. We're getting there we're getting into brand events that you seeing that the five K and yeah roughly our the event in Victoria DC in September nine free sending a lot of product to different brands up there with it's Lululemon or Herschel in Vancouver the brands Burton Volcom showrooms like seating it in there and again I'm only telling you this because there's massive amounts getting canceled has people coming through, people going to clinics, whatever, what is this?

00;35;54;21 - 00;36;14;25
Speaker 2
And they are talking about it. You cannot put a price tag on word of mouth. You cannot put a price tag on that because even if you are being a female, I'm sure that, you know, products or brands that you tell your friends, that's really important. Like if I could get every yoga mom, every soccer mom or hockey mom would want to look at it.

00;36;15;08 - 00;36;34;16
Speaker 2
That's massive, right? Yeah. So we still have so much work to do over here. We're not. We know we're on a roll, and that's it. But we are not going to be back. Rest on our laurels, because a lot of brands get complacent and when they get surpassed by someone, there is no time to sit down right now like it is literally go time, you know, and that's not stopping.

00;36;34;16 - 00;36;54;04
Speaker 2
I don't foresee in the near future. The beauty of it is I've done this before. So this isn't yeah, it isn't crazy time for me. I think it is for some of our newer, greener employees. But for me, I've been there like I was at Red Bull when that took off. I was it absolutely exploded in the US and then it trickled up to Canada, believe it or not.

00;36;54;18 - 00;37;01;11
Speaker 2
But I've been here. So if anything, there's certain times that I actually actually here I'd like to think a resource for mine.

00;37;01;28 - 00;37;03;00
Speaker 1
Of course.

00;37;03;00 - 00;37;19;21
Speaker 2
Of the day the credit should go to Alexis Ariel for this. You're seeing all the you know, all of us. It's nice we get some accolades in the marketing team and that's really great. Mike is a visionary. Mike, as long as he's judge and jury and a lot of anything going out the door creative wise, and that's what it should be, you know.

00;37;19;29 - 00;37;40;01
Speaker 2
And yes, I think we all put ideas in and tweak things and give our it's someone who is our VP. Creative is an amazing job or it is a marketing great. Like we all we're on the same page like last week we were wonderful meetings with the budget stuff, ideas, stuff like that. But at the end of the day, Buck stops with Mike and I can't stress that enough.

00;37;40;01 - 00;38;00;08
Speaker 2
And he's provided this platform and really kind of let people do, you know, if they'd like to get figures right what our sprints and then go and so I actually asked you like is I don't feel like I work a day in my life because I love what I do and I mean, I'm used to a hundred miles an hour, but I really wouldn't have the career I had.

00;38;00;22 - 00;38;35;18
Speaker 2
It wasn't by accident, it was totally by design, because I need excitement, I need action, I need that. That's why it the brands are going to fulfill that need. I don't do any drugs whatsoever that's my drug is like you know don't outside of Abdul that is the extent of the drugs I don't do any drugs you I think the only person Coloradans for weed but I just ever been my thing but my high is brand building it's like exposing people to things that they either don't expect or need in the right place where they're like, How did you get this here?

00;38;36;05 - 00;38;55;16
Speaker 2
I love that. You know, we just have to have really quick and I have too many brands out there we literally want it's in our lives and that's not the way the world works. But yeah, I always tell people I'll look them in the eye across the table. What I do is not instant or light, but it's loyal, are like, okay, you got to give me some time, all right?

00;38;56;02 - 00;39;17;14
Speaker 2
But I saw it all the time at Pops, let's say, you know, are you anyone that years ago it was the brand of action sports. It was the beer brand. It was all ski snow, you know, surf for that matter of yes, we were everywhere there. You know, big beer would try to do that. But they were just they were so late to the game and they'd have some knucklehead in khakis at an agency, try to guess what's cool.

00;39;17;14 - 00;39;31;07
Speaker 2
And they come up like idiots. They didn't do the homework and they they're lazy about it. People are lazy and then they're slow to market and that's dangerous. Those two that could kill it, you know. So my kids, it it's going to take a while of the stuff. But again, it's loyal.

00;39;31;18 - 00;39;50;01
Speaker 1
Well, it's community building, right? Like that goes right back to the social stuff you're talking about. Like you've blown up on social because you a you've got like a really strong brand, got a great sort of like tone of voice and personality, but like people come back because they like the product and they like the community that they're now a part of.

00;39;51;22 - 00;40;11;04
Speaker 1
So cool, so fascinating. I have a couple rapid fire questions that we ask everyone. One is, if you other than liquid death, if there was a brand on the market that you thought was doing something really cool or really interesting or their brand is really interesting, we'd love for you to shout them out.

00;40;12;10 - 00;40;51;00
Speaker 2
You know, I've always been I've had friends. They're not really anymore, but a brand that is just the test of time. And I couldn't have more respect for. Excuse me, if you ask why they have been able to stay relevant all these years when Battle just wants to really embrace kind of the urban scene, but yet kind of have a preppy twist to surf where it's like me, you know, people don't know they are skating and the things that government does and collaborations, I think they're different 14 years ago, but they've still have been able to stay relevant and more important than anything that kept their distribution really clean.

00;40;51;12 - 00;41;13;15
Speaker 2
And I think not enough brands who's like, wow, we're picking up steam. And then that's, you know, my, my, I would think my, my MBA, another long family without a graduate degree. I just have a B.A. is there but is working at Airwalk when they just there was no distribution strategy and it watered down the brand and it was no longer cool, edgy because everyone got their hands on it.

00;41;14;00 - 00;41;30;25
Speaker 2
Since he's not that way and they're still doing collaborations and what not many brands can do Nike collaborations for 30 years or whatever it's been, I don't want to forget. Yeah, but they're still doing what Youth Pop Up got out. But that's one brand that I really, really respect because it's not just a clothing brand. I mean, it's like a pick up that you're wearing.

00;41;30;25 - 00;41;37;01
Speaker 2
Susie It's like 25 identical twin eight year old boys. They're now on the Cincy train. They're 18 and now they're.

00;41;37;01 - 00;41;37;25
Speaker 1
Oh wow.

00;41;38;14 - 00;41;53;22
Speaker 2
So I didn't even educate them on it. Yeah, they've seen a few pieces of art I have from Susie around my house just because I have friends there. That's one brand that I really, really appreciate. Plus, they've got this whole movement in Japan as well where they just use the parents stuff you can't get in your own states.

00;41;53;28 - 00;41;57;26
Speaker 2
Oh, cool. Me more. Want them, you know? You know Japan obviously has a massive.

00;41;58;02 - 00;41;58;20
Speaker 1
Yeah yeah.

00;41;58;21 - 00;42;14;11
Speaker 2
Not in streetwear we're following I should say. So that would be the brand that I to this day I just always really appreciate what they've done. The coffee table book sandals housewares to the coolest collabs so awesome.

00;42;14;21 - 00;42;25;29
Speaker 1
And then finally, just like a piece of advice that you would want to leave the listeners with about marketing or branding or anything to do with. Yeah. Your experience over the last decade.

00;42;26;10 - 00;42;57;26
Speaker 2
Honestly, this goes back to what we were talking about earlier about working with the students and the different brands I've worked with. And then that raids and what I'm getting at is, yeah, we have an evaluation. Well, I'm really offended by these people that were very rude and now they're coming back in botanical gardens. And my advice always isn't not by saying it's just what I look like, the toes you're stepping on now if you catch the actor kissing too, so.

00;42;57;26 - 00;43;18;09
Speaker 2
Yeah, sure. Right. That's it. It's pretty straightforward. Keep your nose clean. That's it. It's all kind of business. And what's so sad and I told my students this was people said, Thanks, man, that's so rad. You did that. And I again, I my taken aback. So I did what I was going to do. And that is absolutely pathetic if I stand out because I did outstanding.

00;43;18;09 - 00;43;45;01
Speaker 2
I do. Yeah. There are so many talkers out there. There are so many people that drop names and do all that. I don't care. Just deliver, okay? And so be cool, right? And to be crass, don't shoot where you eat, okay? If people do that, they just they blow someone up. They make a nasty comment on Instagram. The Internet is here to stay like you do something dumb on there or you you lambast someone, you're going to find it.

00;43;45;02 - 00;44;03;14
Speaker 2
I mean, look at you. Look at these artists, musicians, they point. I mean, how do you see some system off color comment ten years ago? I mean, we got people not get drafted in a certain sport because there was some anti-Semitic rant. They went on when they're 16 years old, you know, you got to be careful. So just that's all I'll say.

00;44;03;14 - 00;44;20;21
Speaker 2
Is that true? Others, you want to be treated. That's my summary right there. And to be all right. You'll do okay, you know? Yeah. It's going to take hard work. But I'm saying your basis is that you're already a step ahead of the game society where it's going right now, unfortunately. So just be cool. That's it. That's it.

00;44;20;21 - 00;44;31;09
Speaker 1
You're awesome. Thank you so much. Texas has been such a pleasure. I will hopefully talk to you soon and we'll see where liquid death goes. I'm sure it's going to take over the world.

00;44;31;23 - 00;44;50;04
Speaker 2
All right. One more product up there and sorry about the is likewise made by Hasbro but I'm very company but anyway, I can't thank you enough for having me. I was happy to carve out this time for you. It's wonderful what you're all doing up there. And we didn't. We need to get more distribution in Canada. We're working on it.

00;44;50;29 - 00;45;03;18
Speaker 2
We are. But for that it's slow. But if it gives you an example, this just came out the other day when we first opened Canada Rebel This is I Can't Make This Up. We were selling more in Minnesota, the state than we.

00;45;03;18 - 00;45;04;21
Speaker 1
Were in Minnesota.

00;45;05;08 - 00;45;15;07
Speaker 2
All the country I know I'm the only one who didn't don't my war like you know Courtney But we were selling more in the state of Minnesota where all Canada went for something.

00;45;15;07 - 00;45;16;05
Speaker 1
Like the.

00;45;16;19 - 00;45;26;10
Speaker 2
We're good. It'll happen. I absolutely love Canada. I'm a hockey guy through and through. Have a great group of guys that skate with your like two other comedians and they're.

00;45;26;10 - 00;45;28;05
Speaker 1
Like, Oh, raising.

00;45;29;04 - 00;45;43;12
Speaker 2
A Canadian with hockey. I don't think I'm going to participate in the show. Quite possibly the most solid human beings are occupation candidates just levelheaded, self-mocking, want to have fun and crushed years like I've never seen before. Yeah.

00;45;43;21 - 00;45;44;17
Speaker 1
That's true.

00;45;44;27 - 00;46;05;05
Speaker 2
They're just not as true. Endurance hockey's always picked up as well, but it's just my experience with actually just Canada. Canadian hockey players, the solid humans, you know. So, I mean, can you imagine what I'm saying that? So I really appreciate you having me. Thank you so much. And know let's stay in touch. Let me know we need more water.

00;46;05;15 - 00;46;07;10
Speaker 2
So I'll get more days.

00;46;08;08 - 00;46;11;13
Speaker 1
We will for sure. Thanks so much. Talk to you soon.

00;46;12;00 - 00;46;15;29
Speaker 2
Okay.

00;46;15;29 - 00;46;22;27
Speaker 1
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