00;00;06;23 - 00;00;33;18
Speaker 1
Hi. Welcome to Dig In the podcast brought to you by Dig Insights. Every week we interview founders, marketers and researchers, from innovative brands to learn how they're approaching their role and their category in a clever way. Hello. Welcome back to Dig In this week. We are so lucky to have Michelle Gansle with us, who is the VP of Global Insights and Analytics at McDonald's.

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Speaker 1
Michelle, how are you doing?

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Speaker 2
I'm doing great. And don't forget also president of the Dig Insights Fan Club.

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Speaker 1
Oh, my gosh, I love that. I'm literally going to have to go and tell all of our founders to listen to that. Hey, if you don't listen to the whole episode, just listen to the beginning where Michelle says she's my number one fan. Michelle, thank you so much for joining us today. Honestly, I've really been looking forward to this episode because you have such a wealth of experience in the space.

00;01;08;19 - 00;01;23;26
Speaker 1
Am I also kind of nerdy, nerdy fan girl power? I think it was the beginning of my role at DEG. And we. Do you remember Clubhouse? Do you remember when Clubhouse existed? Yes, when.

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Speaker 2
You Kayla about that because remember Michela was on that panel together. Yeah.

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Speaker 1
Yeah. That was so weird. I think it was like our round for two weeks or something and the.

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Speaker 2
Clubhouse.

00;01;36;13 - 00;02;04;28
Speaker 1
So wild. But I remember specifically you kind of saying some really compelling stuff about democratizing insights and, you know, wanting to give more people access to, you know, send research and analyze research. So anyways, I've been looking forward to talking to you because I feel like the way that you approach the practice of insights is pretty progressive. This is how we'd normally do it.

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Speaker 1
I just give you loads of compliments at the beginning and then.

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Speaker 2
More, more.

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Speaker 1
But in all seriousness, I would love if you would, if you wouldn't mind, just give like a little bit of background for the listeners, sort of how you ended up in your role today.

00;02;22;14 - 00;02;45;26
Speaker 2
Sure. So everyone, let's say Michelle Gans, the leading global insights in analytics at McDonald's. I've had the privilege of being there for the last 18 months. Before that, I was at Mars, the confectionary business part, for almost 15 years. It's actually a funny story how I ended up in insights because, I mean, as you can imagine by the if you just sum up those numbers, that's been around for a while.

00;02;46;13 - 00;03;08;25
Speaker 2
But back when I was in school, market research wasn't really a degree that you could get. I mean, now it is there's plenty of company companies, colleges and MBA programs that do market research as a degree. But before it was like a class in a marketing form. And I was getting a brand management degree at Thunderbird, which is an international MBA program.

00;03;08;25 - 00;03;26;00
Speaker 2
And while I was there, you know how they have like the intern fair between your first and second year? Mm hmm. Gunning for brand management internships and this woman at Clorox, it's like, well, what is it she's trying to convince me to apply for and insights. Freelancing. Now, you know, I'm looking for a brand management role. It's like, Well, what is it you think you do in a brand manager role?

00;03;26;13 - 00;03;53;00
Speaker 2
So, you know, like understanding consumer needs and creating products and advertising. And she's like, well, that's what we do an insights. So she convinced me to apply and I got the role and I still was thinking, well, this would be a great, you know, experience builder for my future brand management role, of course. And after my internship, you know, I did apply for a bunch of internships, but I loved Clark so much and have going back there and again thinking, you know, some point I will switch.

00;03;53;00 - 00;04;00;29
Speaker 2
And I did actually years later at Mars have the opportunity to do a brand management rotation. And as it turns out, I do prefer insight.

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Speaker 1
So as it turns out, I'm not a huge fan of brand management.

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Speaker 2
So I kind of feel like I just got really lucky and lucked into it. But, you know, I always say the difference is like if we're writing and going on a car trip and you're driving the car and I'm in the passenger seat and I'm like looking at the GPS or the map, if we get there successfully, it's because I played a role in it.

00;04;24;16 - 00;04;42;07
Speaker 2
But if we get lost, it's, you know, I can just blame it all on you for driving poorly or not listening to me. And that's kind of like insights as to marketing or to the business. Yeah, I'll give you advice. You can choose to listen to it or not. If you do, I'm going to take credit and if you don't, then I'm going to say, Well, you don't listen to me.

00;04;43;17 - 00;05;02;25
Speaker 1
Yeah, that's actually a great analogy. I mean, I think Yeah, as you mentioned, you've been in the industry for quite some time and I'm wondering, so I see that in your background you sort of I don't even know how to say LED gum. How did that come?

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Speaker 2
Like did a lot a lot of gum, a lot of years on gum.

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Speaker 1
So would you say that you have like an exceptional understanding of the gum category? Is that something that you.

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Speaker 2
I would like to say I probably know I'm like in the top ten people in the world that know the most about gum at least.

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Speaker 1
I mean, any knowledge you want to draw up any interesting facts that most people probably don't now? Well.

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Speaker 2
Well, gosh, I know so many fun facts about gum, but. Well, did you know for people actually a lot of gum, it's really it's used as a mood management tool. Like gum can be a distress or it can be a boredom killer. And so with just like the action of chewing gum in your mouth can bring energy. So for people who treat a lot of them, they know that it's a mood management tool.

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Speaker 2
It's often used with school in China to help them focus when they are studying.

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Speaker 1
Interesting.

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Speaker 2
I love to get more gum to more gum has many health benefits. It creates healthy bacteria in your mouth.

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Speaker 1
I love it. Yeah. Sorry I had to ask. I recently I recently we're doing a presentation. Are you going to work silly.

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Speaker 2
I am not, you know.

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Speaker 1
And we're doing a presentation with one of our clients who works in the frozen food space and I was talking to a VP of Potato the other day, and I. I was like, Oh, no, potato. This is amazing. So, you know, and they see someone is this is really, really interesting. Me, I have to I have to ask I'm probably more usefully I do want to dive into your experience and your background and sort of what your role at McDonald's looks like now, because it actually sounds quite interesting, like what is encompassed within sort of the insights and analytics function at McDonald's and is it different from any other places you've worked previously?

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Speaker 2
Yeah. So I'm in the global role and in why I say that is because of McDonald's. We have insights, folks that are in the markets for the markets that report into market leaders. And then I support the entire global function, you know, including the president of global Heseltine and all the global functions. But within that we have all aspects of insights and analytics.

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Speaker 2
So I have a foresight team, a consumer insights team, customer experience, team, business insights and analytics team, a data science team and a data governance team. And all of those teams are intensely coming together under one house so that we can bridge data with human insight to drive business strategy and growth. And we're really at service to the entire enterprise organization.

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Speaker 2
It's somewhat unique in that if you look at around other big companies, you'll see different models. And I think we were talking about this before, but it used to be that there was only a consumer insights team and we were the single voice of truth. And, you know, we had all the data, but data was a lot more simple 20 years ago.

00;08;09;14 - 00;08;32;09
Speaker 2
But now with the proliferation of technology, which also creates, you know, infinite more data and data sources, what you saw happening is these other data and an advanced analytics and data science groups were being created that were other from insights. And now over time, those two teams are starting to come closer together because what was happening was creating a little bit two versions of the truth.

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Speaker 2
But really I like to say like data fans and lives and data science gives you a far better what then we could do with human, you know, data and application alone. But what it doesn't do is give you the human why? And so the bringing the two together gets you just to a better business answer. So it's really exciting that I have the whole breadth of from foresight all the way to science, all in one team.

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Speaker 2
And, you know, it's it's been pretty exciting to see the impact that we can make by connecting those dots closer together.

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Speaker 1
And is there an area of insights that you're particularly passionate about? Like, is there, you know, a sub category that you feel like you either sort of thrive in or you find it most interesting?

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Speaker 2
Well, I mean, I like to nerd out on all of it. I think it's all equally interesting. I think the innovation around like nerding out about topics like chat chips and the ethics of AI is only as exciting to me as I'm talking about like foresight in the future of consumer behavior, which is equally interesting and like customer experience.

00;09;36;27 - 00;09;55;29
Speaker 2
And we talk to actual crew members and understand the crew experience and how that affects the customer experience. Like all of that is equally super interesting. I think, you know, that's the one thing that we all have in common, right, is that we're super curious people. Super curious people can find any of that interesting. So I don't really think I can't say I have a favorite child.

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Speaker 1
But okay, fair enough. I tried to make you choose. I'm sorry.

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Speaker 2
I know. What if my teens listening, I love them all equally.

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Speaker 1
I'm going to I'm going to go back to that clubhouse conversation.

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Speaker 2
Because it's clubhouse insert.

00;10;20;08 - 00;10;39;24
Speaker 1
Honestly, what are you talking about? Yeah, you have to, like, include a link and even know if it still exists and if it was, I don't think it does, but that's sort of where we initially were. I initially met you when I got a chance to hear a little bit about how you think about insights and how you approach it.

00;10;39;24 - 00;11;12;21
Speaker 1
And I distinctly remember you talking about how it was super important to give marketers access to some level of market research tools and tooling and, and sort of skill marketing functions up so that they can actually be a part of it being more customer centric or consumer centric. And I remember thinking that that was like really awesome because a lot of the people on the call were kind of like, you know, we have to be careful.

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Speaker 1
There's and I understand both of those things. I understand needing to be really careful about giving people access to data and making sure that, you know, internal using it correctly. But I thought that you had a really sort of refreshing perspective on who should have access to insights, tools, you know, and how how they can sort of interpret it.

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Speaker 1
So I wanted to dig a little bit more into that. You're like, I don't remember that conversation, so I.

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Speaker 2
Totally remember it. It's funny. I feel like I've been advocating that for like five years, and I don't know that we've made much progress as an industry. But honestly, the real actual point was in the world of how we can invest and spend our time. Most insights people say, I want, you know, like the most overused phrase, I want a seat at the table and I want to be able to influence strategy and impact the business.

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Speaker 2
Well, you know, it's not like the most highest level of impacting business is running a concept test or running a name screener. Right. Like the low level, but important and needed repeatable research processes that we do that helps drive innovation along or, you know, product development along. They need to be done. But we have automated tools today where marketers themselves can just input the concept, push a button and get the answer.

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Speaker 2
We don't need to do that for them. So really that the genesis of my point is let's give lower level, repeatable, low risk.

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Speaker 1
Yeah.

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Speaker 2
To the marketers. So also we're not the bottleneck so they can continue to move and do their work, trust that they are smart human beings are getting paid a lot of money and they also want to make right and good decisions and so that we can focus their time on higher impact like bigger foundational, deeper insights studies or foresight work that drives the business for more digging into big known business problems that require more complexity, you know, connecting of multiple dots together, etc..

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Speaker 2
So I just advocate for let's just get rid of lower level work.

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Speaker 1
Yeah, and I, I hear that a lot more. I mean, that, that conversation I'm referencing was a couple of years ago now, and I hear that a lot more now. Okay? This idea of really wanting to democratize access, but how do you go about doing that?

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Speaker 2
Well today are created that you can set it and lock in and get it right. So that's different than the past. Like there was like your upside or like SAPI. So like it's, it doesn't require a lot of insights. Understand? We're not randomizer meetings anymore. Yeah. Like, so the insights expert can set it up and then any marketer can understand intuitively how to use those tools to get to the answer.

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Speaker 2
So I think the point is it's not for everything all the time, but it's for the repeatable process is and where we have automated tools for which there are many, where there's no need, why we need to get involved.

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Speaker 1
Yeah, no, I think that's a really good point. I mean, when it comes to actually setting up something like that, I'm sure I'm sure you have, you know, set up a tool like an upside or as you mentioned, disappear. What would your recommendations be for anyone else who's like new to an insights role or neutral role where they have to do that?

00;14;42;01 - 00;14;52;09
Speaker 1
Like, what would your recommendations be for someone who's looking to democratize access but is a little bit concerned about giving away too much access or.

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Speaker 2
Well, I mean, first I always say like, what if people think it's going to happen? I always love getting in this debate because if you just ask, okay, insights person, what do you think is going to happen if we give them access and they're like, well, they're going to misinterpret the results or you know, bend it to meet their hypothesis, like, yeah, okay.

00;15;08;19 - 00;15;34;20
Speaker 2
And what would happen if that happened? Yeah, well then they would make potentially wrong decision or not. Well, but the thing is, is it takes an army of people and a whole bunch of processes and a bunch of data points and supporting measures like anyone who works in a company knows that it's, it takes a lot to get something through the system and out into the world that no one concept test or one human being is going to like implode the company if they make a bad decision.

00;15;34;20 - 00;15;51;28
Speaker 2
And also all people are trying to make good decisions for the company. So I think if we just all assume positive intent and assume it's all smart people working towards the same goals, that's so true. No risk. But you know, in terms of like more junior insights people, I also understand it's different because they're trying to prove themselves and create value.

00;15;52;09 - 00;16;10;20
Speaker 2
But again, I would say this the best way that you can create value or can you spend more time digging deeper into the why or focusing on higher level business questions and problems. So I think it also might just be a little bit of where you are in your career and what kind of work are you meant to be delivering, Right?

00;16;10;20 - 00;16;27;20
Speaker 2
So for more Junior Insights people, maybe it is right inappropriate for them or in concept tests because it's a great way to learn how to do research. But at some point you've done that. You've learned that you don't need to keep doing that. And then on the other side, marketers will complain like, you just keep giving us more work like technology and tools.

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Speaker 2
Similar with marketing, there are plenty of marketing automated tools, right? So they feel like you just we just keep getting piled on more work where other people used to do this work for me. But you know, my, my argument to that would be that but that's we all have technology and tools that helps makes us faster and smarter and takes other work out of our lives and so that we can focus on what matters most, which is what's the what's the end recommendation for the business.

00;16;53;08 - 00;17;16;20
Speaker 1
Yeah. And the more and more I think about or not think about, the more and more I talk to other people within the insights space like similar similar to you folks that are in leadership roles within insights they're thinking about how they can spend more time on those strategic projects. And I think so totally makes sense that you'd want to give access to people like I could run.

00;17;17;12 - 00;17;45;03
Speaker 1
You know, I'm not an insight professional. I feel like I could run a concept test. So I, I totally hear you and frankly, like, totally agree with you. I think that it makes it makes so much sense. I think one of the things that you touched on is, you know, in an interview that sorry, in our sort of pre chat was that you were really, really interested in sort of people development and people leadership.

00;17;46;08 - 00;17;58;21
Speaker 1
And that's been sort of a non-negotiable not like you really want that to be a part of your of your career going forward. It's talk to me about what it is that you enjoy about people, people development and people leadership.

00;18;00;10 - 00;18;18;15
Speaker 2
Well, I mean, a couple of things. Like one, just naturally as a human being, I'm personally into personal development and leadership. I like to nerd out on those topics. I'm constantly looking for ways to prove myself. I like to take all those like assessment I like to go to. I still like to go to education and training. I still attend conferences.

00;18;18;18 - 00;18;41;23
Speaker 2
So like, you know, we're all lifelong learners. So I think some of it is a personal proclivity towards that. But but the other half of it is, I think, you know, we were talking about that if people were really, really honest and I've actually done a poll just to check this out, like 80% of people managers would say they would if they could have the same salary and the same job without people managing.

00;18;41;23 - 00;19;01;21
Speaker 2
They prefer not to. People manage because it's hard. People, you know, are all at the same. It requires style fixing. People are imperfect, emotional human beings inside and outside of work. So it's hard. And when you do a good job, you get promoted and you get promoted. Most times that comes with people leadership. And so you have to take it if you want to keep moving up.

00;19;02;16 - 00;19;22;18
Speaker 2
I only had the hand love it because I know that your ability to have the greatest impact possible has everything to do with creating a high performing team that's also making an impact. All right. So most of my work is not anything I do personally, but it's through my people. So if they're happy, engaged, effective, then we're all races, all boats, and we're all doing better.

00;19;23;00 - 00;19;50;25
Speaker 2
And so I also know how important it is to to invest in that space. And personally, I just really love to see people like grow and flourish and succeed. It's just it's a great feeling to be a part of that. So for all of those reasons, I really love people leadership, but it definitely it requires intentionality, energy. And sometimes when you have a full plate and a lot going on that can feel like, you know, you're on top of.

00;19;52;01 - 00;20;29;03
Speaker 1
Yeah, but I love it. I also love it. So I appreciate that. Yeah, it's it's so rewarding in terms of actually developing people within the insights function. So I actually just had I did an episode with the founders of DEG where we talked about what the next generation of insights professionals might look like, and we landed on sort of that curiosity piece, like being able to really handle a lot of new information at once.

00;20;30;10 - 00;20;46;23
Speaker 1
You know, that's something that people really need to to be able to do within a new insights role. Do you have any recommendations for someone who's looking to to join as like an analyst or looking to move up within the insights function to be successful?

00;20;48;02 - 00;21;09;08
Speaker 2
Yeah, it's funny that fact we talk about this topic a lot. I think the curiosity of course, is always going to be there, right? Yeah, More and more comfort with both left brain and right brain is probably going to be a necessity. So the ability to understand technology or be comfortable using technology, you know, younger generations, that won't be an issue because they're used.

00;21;09;08 - 00;21;34;03
Speaker 2
They were born digital natives. So I think, you know, people that will just be a given. But the idea of like getting comfortable with digging deep into qualitative but also being comfortable with understanding how an up and works like you don't have to be an expert in, you know, how to be a hands on keyboard coder, but you need to understand what it is, how it works, and how you can apply it to, you know, create insights of this impact.

00;21;34;03 - 00;21;55;17
Speaker 2
And I think that is different than today's insights. People who didn't for weren't born with like natively in the technology space or in the advanced analytics space. I feel like for a lot of insights folks, it's scary and hard. But in the future, I think to feel the flux beyond between insights and data will just be a given.

00;21;55;17 - 00;22;16;20
Speaker 2
I think also we will start to see insights, folks coming from all different career paths, like rather than being, you know, you have to have an MBA and you have to study marketing, work, research. I think we'll start seeing more like journalists come into the space or planners come into the space or you know, maybe marketers who decide that they want to come in to insights.

00;22;16;20 - 00;22;22;29
Speaker 2
So I predict that we'll start to see more diversity of where we recruit from, at least I hope so.

00;22;24;14 - 00;22;29;00
Speaker 1
Nice. Yeah. I mean, would you say insight is a marketing function?

00;22;30;13 - 00;22;38;07
Speaker 2
It's starting to not be. I think historically it has been, but you're starting to see it now more and more sit at its own separate function, which I think is great.

00;22;39;19 - 00;23;05;16
Speaker 1
Yeah, I'm always curious what people's answers to that because I'm like, I think it is. But I guess yeah, in terms of the specific sort of set of skills, but you're, you're belting maybe they're, they're slightly different. That was quite the aside. Okay I'm conscious of, I'm conscious of time before I go into our rapid fire questions. I did want to ask you one final question about your current role.

00;23;06;22 - 00;23;29;19
Speaker 1
What is sort of a not not that it's a challenge about McDonald's specifically, but as a senior leader within the insights function, a global business like, what is the biggest challenge that you're kind of facing right now, or what is the the thing that as you're going to sleep is sort of like percolating around in your brain?

00;23;29;19 - 00;24;07;25
Speaker 2
I mean, honestly, I guess the thing that keeps me most at night is one. I mean, even though people is my greatest joy, it's also the thing that gives me the most, you know, heartache. Like I don't want to see people pain, suffering, upset, whether that's personal or professional, so that definitely keeps me up at night. But then the other side of it, which is unique to McDonald's, is we're sitting on a mountain of wealth of data, but because of our decentralized nature, so much of it, we don't have the right tools or systems or investment in place to like, harmonize and fully utilize the data.

00;24;07;25 - 00;24;19;04
Speaker 2
So a lot of people say, I've got this data, but I don't know what to do with it. Like we've got this data and we know what to do with it, but we can't. And so we're having to put a lot of energy into back create platforms to.

00;24;19;04 - 00;24;19;19
Speaker 1
Allow us.

00;24;20;12 - 00;24;28;08
Speaker 2
To be able to actually use the data that we have. And so that keeps me up at night in just because, you know, it's like so close. It's in arm's reach.

00;24;29;20 - 00;24;40;19
Speaker 1
Yeah, I love the term data lake. I'm like, What does that mean? Like, it's such a funny it's such a funny time.

00;24;41;02 - 00;24;56;03
Speaker 2
I just learn a new phrase, which I might data scientist It's going to kill me. But Data Mart is like, what's a data mart? But that's apparently different than a data lake and data pool. So you've got their pools, data lake to now Data mart. So go look that up.

00;24;56;21 - 00;25;23;04
Speaker 1
Okay. I learn something new every time I do one of these episodes. Hmm. Okay. Moving swiftly on because I don't want to take up any more of your too much more of your time. Tell us about a new or novel way that you've gone about understanding your consumer, your target, your target audience, your customer base. In the recent past?

00;25;23;04 - 00;25;44;00
Speaker 2
Well, I feel like we're always trying novel thing. I don't think this is novel, but we have crew and managers coming to training and hamburger University here in our headquarters every week. We like turn that into a customer immersion program where we'll facilitate teams, you know, to take you take the managers to lunch and interview them. It's like it's it's like a fun, easy way.

00;25;44;04 - 00;26;04;19
Speaker 2
You don't even have to go and do research. They're literally here in our offices. So that's what they I think we're always I think more importantly, we're always trying to find creative ways of how we land insights. So you know, how you use video or one time I remember for this gen Z presentation, I made a pub quiz where I had senior leaders and teams.

00;26;04;19 - 00;26;19;15
Speaker 2
We do like a fun little pub quiz, but it was all served to show them how little they actually know about the topic. But but in a funny way. So I think, you know, being unique about how you deliver insights is something we often overlook that I really enjoy thinking about.

00;26;19;29 - 00;26;40;28
Speaker 1
Yeah, we're actually doing or I'm doing, some of my team is doing a big piece of work on data storytelling right now and sort of how you do, how you land insights and you know what best practice looks like. So yeah, it's, it's a huge topic right now. But I love I have not heard about a pub quiz that's so cool.

00;26;41;05 - 00;26;49;18
Speaker 1
Who do you look to when trying to understand where, like the market research industry is going? Hmm. Well.

00;26;50;03 - 00;26;59;13
Speaker 2
I love going to conferences because I think that is if you want to know where the research industry's going. A little plug for CRC in October. It's in Chicago this year.

00;26;59;27 - 00;27;01;09
Speaker 1
Yes, we'll be there.

00;27;01;09 - 00;27;22;18
Speaker 2
Yeah. I think Michael and I are actually applying to speak together. Yeah, but it's a great conference. We got some amazing keynote speakers coming to conferences. Number one, listening to podcasts and, you know, just talking to peers and industry insights, leaders, corporate insights, leaders in the industry, you know, in the US and in the globe spend a lot of time together.

00;27;22;18 - 00;27;25;27
Speaker 2
In fact, I was just with the head of insights IKEA in the Netherlands last week.

00;27;26;06 - 00;27;43;18
Speaker 1
Oh, cool. And finally, do you have one tip for a researcher that's listening to this? Yeah, one tip about how they can either do their job better or one sort of key takeaway from what we've talked about.

00;27;45;08 - 00;28;05;29
Speaker 2
I think for more general insights, people, they should go to conferences, but, you know, take the supplier phone calls, learn more about what's going on in the industry because that's how you learn. I mean, if you don't know what methodologies and companies and approaches are out there, how will you get better? And and also, like I said, have coffee chats with more senior industry leaders.

00;28;05;29 - 00;28;15;29
Speaker 2
I would have more junior insights. People reach out to me just to pick my brain or, you know, learn how to progress in their career. I always take the call.

00;28;15;29 - 00;28;26;07
Speaker 1
Michel, this was such a pleasure. Thank you so much for joining me. Am I will, I'm sure. See you soon. For sure. Yeah. Thank you so much.

00;28;26;07 - 00;28;27;28
Speaker 2
We have a good morning. Good to see you.

00;28;28;09 - 00;28;40;05
Speaker 1
Bye bye. I thanks for tuning in this week. Find us on LinkedIn at Digg Insights. And don't forget to hit subscribe for a weekly dose of fresh content.