00;00;06;23 - 00;00;32;28
Speaker 1
Hi. Welcome to Dig In the podcast brought to you by Dig Insights. Every week we interview founders, marketers and researchers, from innovative brands to learn how they're approaching their role and their category in a clever way. Welcome back to this week's episode of Dig In. We've got our second Founders edition of the podcast. So I'm joined by Ian, Michael, Dominic and Paul.

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Speaker 1
Oh my gosh, how am I going to ask this? How is everyone doing? Paul, you start.

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Speaker 2
I don't know. I got new headphones so I might sound okay, but I look different. So I know it's a Friday and we're expecting 30 centimeters of snow later, so I'm as good as can be.

00;00;51;17 - 00;00;55;21
Speaker 1
I mean, you do look pretty snazzy in the headphones. To be fair, You look like a gamer.

00;00;55;29 - 00;01;01;07
Speaker 2
I wore a cardigan to make it even look like more dressy, though.

00;01;01;07 - 00;01;05;13
Speaker 1
Uniform dons are mark my sweatshirt.

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Speaker 2
So you're wearing your white dress.

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Speaker 3
Sweatshirt.

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Speaker 2
Dress, sweatshirt. Okay.

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Speaker 1
Isn't that just like a wool sweater?

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Speaker 3
No, it's a sweatshirt. Oh.

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Speaker 2
Okay. Of course. That's the Michael Edwards of wardrobe. It just has a totally different classification.

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Speaker 1
But what's the difference?

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Speaker 3
The sweatshirt monitor of what is it like?

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Speaker 1
Is it like the British like jumper? Like it's a jumper. It's not a sweater.

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Speaker 2
But but but a dress jumper.

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Speaker 4
Since this is audio only, I'm just going to go ahead and say I'm dressed like a cowboy.

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Speaker 1
Well, we'll try and cut out of the video footage.

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Speaker 2
Is what he says. He's dressed as a cowboy. Just means he's wearing chaps. He still has a truck, right?

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Speaker 4
Yeah. Yeah.

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Speaker 1
Oh, my God. What an amazing what an amazing segway into our topic. Oh, God. Sorry. Let me try and stop laughing.

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Speaker 2
I'll leave everybody with that visual.

00;02;06;12 - 00;02;36;20
Speaker 1
Perfect. And moving swiftly along. We're. We're really excited to talk about data storytelling today. It's something that we've been thinking about a lot internally. It's something that we're hearing about a lot when we go to conferences in terms of, you know, what is it? How can we make it better? What are our clients looking for? So I wanted to get these folks together to chat about it and quite possibly the biggest question that we need to dive into first is, you know, why does it even matter or why is it so important?

00;02;36;20 - 00;02;40;21
Speaker 1
Why are so many people talking about this? Michael, what do you think?

00;02;41;20 - 00;03;05;26
Speaker 3
Yeah, bring it straight over to me. I think what it say is that the reason it matters is we need data that can move seamlessly through organizations and different people with different people. The different organizations have different orientations to data. And those of you who are older, like me, might remember the film A Beautiful Mind, where you could like, see all these numbers, see all this data, and he would just identify the patterns within it.

00;03;06;23 - 00;03;29;13
Speaker 3
But most people can't do that. So I think that sort of data storytelling in data visualization really helps is because a lot of the magic in data is the patterns that underlie it. So it's not the ones and zeroes, it's finding the patterns underneath the ones with the zero. And I think that data visualization and data storytelling helps a broader audience to identify those patterns, understand the data, to internalize it.

00;03;29;27 - 00;03;50;10
Speaker 3
And it's only once you internalized it, you can actually then start to translate it into strategy. If you don't understand it, if you don't get it, then at the very best you might do something very superficial. But if you've really understood and really internalized it, then you can start thinking about it in interesting ways. But manipulating it in your mind sort of translate it into, okay, what might we do with this?

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Speaker 3
So I think I think that's why it's really important.

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Speaker 1
It's a really good answer. So basically it's about, yeah.

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Speaker 4
I've never thought of that. I thought it was so.

00;03;59;23 - 00;04;05;11
Speaker 2
So I mean, the thing is, he's telling a story right now with his dress sweatshirt, so.

00;04;05;11 - 00;04;23;11
Speaker 1
Absolutely. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, but so what you're saying is the reason it's so important is because of what comes out of it. Like as in, like what it's able to do within an organization. So it matters because you need to make sure the story is clear and compelling enough for it to be able to be auctioned.

00;04;24;07 - 00;04;33;02
Speaker 3
Yeah, absolutely. And again, to move through an organization and be relevant to people with different levels of discomfort. Brigade orientation as a director.

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Speaker 1
And you want to want to debate Michael on this. I mean, you want to have a different.

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Speaker 2
Perspective that I think we've all learned to try to debate Michael on something. It's like we don't have time for the podcast for that.

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Speaker 1
But I have 3 hours.

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Speaker 2
I got I think it just just to kind of build on what he's saying. I think because people have so much access to so much data now and have to go and pass through it so quickly, especially what Michael's saying in terms of the different stakeholders, the organization being able to tell that story, what's relevant to that stakeholder quickly so that they can understand what the key point is and moved and make decisions faster.

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Speaker 2
I think it's just the other element of data visualization and data storytelling that we find ourselves challenged with. How can we make the story simple and easy to understand so that people can make quick decisions?

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Speaker 1
I mean, do we feel like it's like the level of importance of data storytelling has changed in the last decade or so? And if yes, why do we think that? I'm using we in a weird way, but why do you guys think that?

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Speaker 4
I think it's changed because it's become it's become more important for the the last point that Paul just made, which is that, you know, 20 years ago, if you were doing this job and you'd go in with like a 300 page deck that every page was just basically a data table with the four main groups that they worried about or the four concepts as columns or something like that.

00;05;55;17 - 00;06;19;06
Speaker 4
That might be the only presentation that they looked at that week that was that dense and frankly, that boring. And now they're doing that every day. And so they just they're not they didn't have the patience for it anymore or the they don't want to look through that. They want ten pages, ten or 30 pages max that tells the story so they can figure out what the takeaways are quickly.

00;06;19;12 - 00;06;39;06
Speaker 4
But they still want enough data in there that they trust the recommendations you're making. And so that's I think that's the trade off. And I think it's because there's just too much. No one has patience for a hundred page or a 200 page, two hour meeting of tables.

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Speaker 3
Yeah, I could sort of I'm old enough that I can weigh in with a sort of a timeline perspective. Yeah. So I worked at Kraft in the late nineties and when I was there, my boss quit and he was throwing away reports that he'd received from Nielsen, which were leather bound and gold edged no, I don't want to produce that report and how special those reports were, and they released them once a quarter.

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Speaker 3
So, you know, you got your report. It's all about leather and you'll actually read it. And yet people are just like inundated now, like, you know, you can't launch LinkedIn without getting inquiries from people. The people still have the mental capacity, not because we're overwhelmed with information now.

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Speaker 2
So it explains your library of leather bound books with gold edging now, Now I guess where they came from.

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Speaker 3
Those I mean, even that they weren't doing that, that when you look at this. Well you know in the eighties that's that's what Nielsen did this wasn't a thousand years ago.

00;07;36;03 - 00;08;03;21
Speaker 1
So I talked to some people who thought, you know, the actual visualization piece was far more interesting and we should integrate designers into each sort of research team so that there was access to someone who really understood how to make the insights be impactful. And then I talked to other people who were like, No, no, no, it doesn't really matter as long as you have a clear story and you're able to explain that in whatever medium you do, then that's really the thing that matters.

00;08;03;21 - 00;08;17;10
Speaker 1
And I'm sure that the truth is somewhere in the middle there. Do you think do you have any opinion about that? Like what do you think a good data story looks like? And does it does your opinion fall more on the data visualization side or more on, you know, establishing that a really good story side?

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Speaker 4
I think it's a combination of the two, but I think the story itself is kind of table stakes, like you need to have a good story because if you don't have a good story and then you make it look great, well then what's what's the point of that point? And the reality is and these days, I mean, a lot of our clients want things turn around so quickly that making it look beautiful.

00;08;40;00 - 00;09;03;19
Speaker 4
There just might not be time for that. So I think you need to start with a clear and concise story. And then if you have the opportunity to to bring it to life. Absolutely. Like whether that's some really slick looking infographic or like a micro website or, you know, like some some video testimonials from customers or stakeholders that you think that can bring it to life.

00;09;03;19 - 00;09;20;28
Speaker 2
But I'm laughing because I love because I think back to your reports about like you were like the clip art captain. You know, there would be like a starburst associated with the key data point. You wanted people to focus on is like if we had if we had access to just clip arts, like it would be done with like was the master of clip art.

00;09;21;20 - 00;09;42;28
Speaker 4
I have like when I open a report I wrote like ten years ago, I just cringe these days. Some people cringe at the clothes they wore. I cringe at a fourth. I know. But to answer your question, I think it's the story is the most important part. And then if you have the time and the resources to really bring it to life visually, great.

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Speaker 4
But it shouldn't be the other way around because if it's just, you know, like if it's the data is wrong or you're making the wrong conclusions, recommendations. And I mean, it's even worse if it looks good, because then people might actually take your bad advice. Hmm.

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Speaker 1
No, that's a very fair point. Like, obviously, you need to make sure that it's accurate.

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Speaker 4
Yeah. I think the challenge for our for our industry specifically, though, is like if you look at management consulting consulting companies like the McKinsey's and the brains and stuff, when they get into clients, they go through multiple iterations. And so they have the ability to land on a story that the client agrees to, and then they have the extra time to build that out into really nice visualizations where our projects tend to be faster turnaround.

00;10;26;04 - 00;11;02;21
Speaker 4
So if you have to land on a story, you may not have even got an agreement or the client may not be fully agreed to that story. And now you've got to decide to put in another layer of work to get the visualizations right. And that's where, you know, when Dom says the time, that's the challenge because you can if you're good at this job, I think you can relatively quickly land on a story, but you may not have the time to do like an infographic or something like that that's challenging and you don't want to get to the infographic until you know that's the right story.

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Speaker 4
And sometimes you need the client to tell you, Yes, I agree, that's the right story or not. So that's the challenge. But obviously if you can boil something down to an infographic, it's better.

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Speaker 3
Not to be too salesy. But one one thing that that is helpful when we specifically are doing this is things like Dashboard, like Dashboard visualizations, as opposed to Dashboard just data driven. So the things like the idea map with an upside, those sorts of things, chart with an upside really helped to create some visualization options. And I agree with Dom, you need that story.

00;11;34;24 - 00;11;43;25
Speaker 3
But although those are custom visualizations, they are still data visualization that does really help to do a quick sort of database story.

00;11;44;20 - 00;12;01;21
Speaker 1
I mean, on that note, is there anything else that we're doing differently internally in terms of trying to effectively tell that story? I'm just thinking of like any of the other tech that we've that we're working on or any of the work that Joel's team is doing. Like anything that we do somewhat differently.

00;12;01;21 - 00;12;24;17
Speaker 4
I think we always come up with great visualizations for multivariate analysis, because multivariate analysis is one of the hardest things to explain. Like you can look at a set of data tables and you can say this is the important finding and this is the important difference, statistically different difference between groups. And I'm going to say those two things on a slide, but when it comes to data visualization around multivariate analysis is a lot more challenging.

00;12;24;17 - 00;12;56;01
Speaker 4
Like how do you show in two dimensions something like an MDC map or a network map, you know, and that's why So we're pretty careful about the methodology that we choose. It can visualize data, which is exactly why we chose network map over, say, M.D.s. And you know, that becomes really also really challenging when you start looking at model data and you want to say something like if you change the price this much, how do you how do you visualize the price elasticity?

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Speaker 4
You've got to come up with charts that show as you very price how the share of choice change if you keep all other variables static. Yeah, I think we do that really, really well. I think that's one of the things Digg does best is visualizing complicated analysis, complicated data, visual multivariate analysis, but even just complicated model data.

00;13;19;28 - 00;13;45;27
Speaker 2
Yeah, I think I would totally agree. I think where we have seen an evolution of data visualization and telling that story is it's gone from, you know, what Michael Rhodes mentioned in terms of those massive books of just data to like just charting basic charting. And and I think, you know, we went from charting to infographic. Let's see what we can do and make something that's visual and, and try to pull out the key points that we wanted to highlight to.

00;13;45;27 - 00;14;08;18
Speaker 2
Now it's much more a dashboard in the the difference, though, I think between what we're trying to do and what we've seen, I'd say else in the market with Dashboard is it's still taking the dashboard is very interesting because other companies that try to do it well I see fail in terms of their approach. They take data and they just create charts following it.

00;14;08;18 - 00;14;40;02
Speaker 2
So it's just a visualization of the data in a chart format, but now it's online. Whereas the stuff that we're trying to create from our dashboards is, is analytical in its, in its presentation. So we are taking that information, we are analyzing and then displaying it in a way that provides insight. And that's, I think, a huge difference between how you approach data visualization and storytelling using technology is are you just displaying the information and it just add more technology advanced way or are you taking it interpreting it, and feeding it back in a way that people can easily understand?

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Speaker 2
And that's, I think, the difference or where we try to focus.

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Speaker 1
Yeah, that's actually really interesting. I was talking to one of our clients recently about how they love the fact that with a lot of our tools they can actually go in and like almost find the story themselves. They know their business best, they know the context. So it's quite easy for them to sort of go in virtual market, for example, go in and really get a sense of of what the story would look like.

00;15;07;04 - 00;15;22;27
Speaker 1
Are we seeing maybe Dom's the best person to ask, like, are we seeing more clients open to that now, sort of uncovering the story on their own? Or would you say people sort of want that final, whether it's like a PDF deliverable video, an infographic.

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Speaker 4
Collaboratively, Other ones, they they're almost happy with the data being the deliverable because they want to do it themselves. But I think that collaborative approach is is best. I mean, as much as we like to think we have really strong partnerships with our clients, which we do, we still don't know their business as well as they do, and we still don't know what sort of landmines are waiting in the organization that you can't see that.

00;15;45;08 - 00;15;58;22
Speaker 4
So you must see that. And so they know that. So ultimately they have to have some, you know, final ownership of that. But I think, you know, when we have these long standing relationships, we can really work in partnership with them. I think that's when we do our best work.

00;15;59;12 - 00;16;24;10
Speaker 2
I think even that's even that's interesting and it's evolving because I think what clients are relying on is some sort of also interpretation and expertise in what you're doing that can feed it back to the client like you can. You can try to visualize the data as best as possible. You can try to say this is what it's kind of, you know, meaning if you're just looking at it, but having somebody else explain it and telling you this is where the stories go and this is what you can think about in terms of the strategy.

00;16;24;10 - 00;16;43;09
Speaker 2
This is maybe how you can use this information. Action against it is that is the compelling part that you tend to get with somebody, actually puts it together, delivers a report, actually gives it to the client, takes them through that thinking. And that's the one piece that's kind of missing. But it's also interesting because it's also the element where AI is starting to really help to inform.

00;16;43;15 - 00;17;02;15
Speaker 2
And so those are going to be an interesting balance about how much that can help with some interpretation of the data visualization and the storytelling, at least getting you part of the way. They're leveraging more technology so that you're not always having to rely on a report generated information around the actual consultant providing that expertise.

00;17;02;22 - 00;17;27;16
Speaker 4
I mean, a lot of other a lot of people try to tackle that. The missing part of PowerPoint, which is that it's not dynamic. So I don't even remember what it used to be called. There used to be this other presentation. So, yes, he tried to make things more dynamic so that you would see data moving. But the problem was it was just way too hard to use note, way too hard to share and had a bunch of barriers to usage.

00;17;28;14 - 00;17;53;08
Speaker 4
But there is something intrinsically powerful about dashboards, which is that they're dynamic. Watching the data shift in real time is a lot more informative than just showing a static PowerPoint slides. Even if you add some, you know, animations which tend to be relatively lame, having the dynamic change and shift in data in real time is a lot more powerful in terms of uncovering those those insights.

00;17;53;08 - 00;18;13;17
Speaker 4
The problem is how do you share that in a meaningful way? And I think that's been the barrier to dashboard approaches because I just want to take one slide from a presentation and send it out, but then you lose that. So I think that's kind of like the that missing leap between dashboard and static PowerPoint. Even though there's so much power to dashboards, they're hard to share.

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Speaker 4
And so I think that's what we have to kind of tackle as an industry because the story is better if it's dynamic.

00;18;19;01 - 00;18;45;05
Speaker 3
I was talking to one of our clients a while back who uses our dashboards more as a DIY sort of situation, and she used really interesting terms and said it lets us play with the data. Now for those really cool, because if you're in a play mindset, like you can change it to what it meant, what a women dynamically see it, change it, but older people think, younger people think it changes your mindset and the way that you're processing that information because you're now much more open, you're thinking creatively.

00;18;45;14 - 00;18;47;14
Speaker 3
And I thought that was a really interesting way to frame it.

00;18;47;17 - 00;18;51;00
Speaker 2
I also think dress Yes, sweatshirts are very playful. Michael Just.

00;18;51;17 - 00;18;54;07
Speaker 1
Oh my gosh, Paul's got it out for you right now.

00;18;54;07 - 00;18;58;08
Speaker 2
I love the I love the dress sweatshirt. It's a new classification, new territory.

00;18;59;28 - 00;19;03;27
Speaker 3
I'm a fashion leader, thought leader. In two weeks, you're going to have a dress, which.

00;19;05;01 - 00;19;05;11
Speaker 2
I don't.

00;19;05;11 - 00;19;08;29
Speaker 1
Doubt it. Are we are we branding it dress sweatshirts?

00;19;09;05 - 00;19;10;10
Speaker 2
He's created his new category.

00;19;10;10 - 00;19;14;26
Speaker 4
He he tried to sell me on the dress shorts a year ago and I just couldn't get behind it.

00;19;14;26 - 00;19;54;02
Speaker 1
So he's like, no shorts in winter. Yeah. Ideal. No, I really like that point. Michael around play. I think that's sort of what I've been struggling with as someone who doesn't, you know, I'm not a I'm not a researcher. I've learned so much working with the team here. But when I think about dashboards and to your point in how dynamic they are, I've always struggled with this idea of like how are how is sort of the dashboard piece going to replicate or I guess work with this idea of having like one holistic story that's super clear because it is dynamic and that's the, the, the play of it, that's the fun of it.

00;19;54;02 - 00;20;16;19
Speaker 2
And I think that goes back to why it's like the fact that we ourselves have have created the technology is a different spin on what you might see in the market. Like we have done this job for a long time. We do know how to interpret information. And then what actually would be interesting to see as opposed to, you know, so when you say I like to play with the data, so do we.

00;20;16;19 - 00;20;39;15
Speaker 2
And like the fact that we like to play with the data is also a reason why we've created tools that enable that to happen in a meaningful way. It's not just I'm just going to put a simple filter on it and see if there's actual interpretation, there's analytics behind it. Because we have done that, we've done it, we've all done that, we've all played with the data to try to figure out what that story should be and critically look at that information and pick out those nuggets that are the most important.

00;20;39;15 - 00;20;51;21
Speaker 2
And we've taken that knowledge and that expertise and translated to how we actually build the technology, which I think for us is a pretty distinct feature for what we do versus some other companies.

00;20;53;14 - 00;20;54;20
Speaker 4
Well, yeah, because I think a lot.

00;20;54;20 - 00;20;56;13
Speaker 2
Of waving or sometimes waving.

00;20;56;24 - 00;21;02;06
Speaker 4
But I'm not I want to say something I was going to do. Like I didn't want to be rude, but I jump in, jump in.

00;21;02;29 - 00;21;03;11
Speaker 3
I mean, it's.

00;21;03;21 - 00;21;21;04
Speaker 4
It's building on this idea of like playing with the data and being curious. I think in our last podcast we were talking about like what traits make for good research and like an innate curiosity and being creative was part of it. And I think like if you were to give like someone new to this job to write a report, I'd give them no guidance.

00;21;21;10 - 00;21;46;06
Speaker 4
I think the easiest thing that people do is they basically write a PowerPoint that mirrors the questionnaire they just start with question one question, two questions, and they make a chart for each one. And that's actually they play the worst way to tell a story because it's you're not going to end up with it. And I think the ability to understand that, okay, this is the data collected is probably not even relevant to the final story, but you need to grab a bit from here, a bit from here and a bit from here and pull it together.

00;21;46;13 - 00;22;12;27
Speaker 4
That's that ability to be creative and play with the data. And I think it doesn't even. I think when you get a really great story, it goes beyond just like the survey instrument or the focus groups that you're doing right there. You can bring in other learnings, so you can refer back to another piece of research you might have done for the client six months before, or you draw upon some secondary research that you've you've done either is like a knowledge harvest upfront or you've done it in parallel to this.

00;22;12;27 - 00;22;30;09
Speaker 4
So to really tell these great stories, it's it is that idea of you're these are all this ingredients to put together a great dish. I don't know if that analogy works, but I'm hungry so a great piece of clip art. A great piece of clip art. That's what makes it sing. But yeah, yeah.

00;22;31;05 - 00;22;32;11
Speaker 1
Ian, were you going to say something.

00;22;32;15 - 00;22;36;09
Speaker 3
Like consultancy cost Data play like the name?

00;22;36;09 - 00;22;55;20
Speaker 4
All I was going to say is I think there's an interesting balance, like if we look at technology, because if you look at a lot like, for instance, we use HubSpot, I'm not I'm not going to denigrate HubSpot, but I'm just going to use it as an example of you go in and you build your own charts and the building of those charts can be quite challenging to actually put together because you know, the different versions and stuff.

00;22;56;00 - 00;23;22;06
Speaker 4
And then now you're relying on the end user to know how they want to visualize the data, which I think is almost a step too far for most users, particularly if it's red tech. So what we've done in upside is we've determined the preset visualizations and you can play with them to see how the data moves under different scenarios, but that's different than them having to create the chart in the first place.

00;23;22;06 - 00;23;38;23
Speaker 4
And I think that's the value that we bring as a research company. Who built tech versus a tech company? Because a tech company just thinks, Oh, this data is going to have to be visualized. I don't know how to visualize it, so I'll let the user have complete autonomy on how they now want to visualize that data. But that's a step too far.

00;23;38;24 - 00;24;05;09
Speaker 4
Nobody wants to do that, which is why they like PowerPoint, because then I have to think it's already we've determined how the story works and we've delivered it to them, and that's storytelling. To make dashboards that give you that same value is very difficult. You've got to spend a lot of time thinking about what's the right visualization for this type of data that will move in a meaningful way when they start playing with things like filters or when they start adding or subtracting products from our market simulator?

00;24;05;23 - 00;24;12;13
Speaker 4
That's I think that's a huge point of difference in what we build versus what other people have built. And I think it's because we're researchers and we know about storytelling.

00;24;12;13 - 00;24;41;20
Speaker 2
You know, going back to even just the conferences that we attended, I think the the technology that has been kind of created or influenced by people who have been in the industry for a long time, you can really tell stands out versus ones that don't. So I look at like even qualitative technology, like with discuss or a canvas cans for even vox pop music still in terms of just how it's created, at least the way it's been thought out and how it could be used.

00;24;41;29 - 00;25;02;26
Speaker 2
You could tell there was a lot of influence, other internal or external, on how that information should be created, shared, disseminated. And you know, from all that, even though the stuff that we do is fantastic, I do see others as being really cool in the way that they are. You can tell there was a lot of influence from people have been around that industry for a while.

00;25;02;26 - 00;25;03;14
Speaker 1
Yeah, that's.

00;25;03;26 - 00;25;23;13
Speaker 3
Sort of interesting to me as well, where it allows you to overlay your voice, your tech, your voice, your perspective while showing something at the same time. I think that's a lot of the challenge. Same with Dashboard. Specifically as I received the dashboard. I sort of have to look through it and figure things out myself and that's a bit of a mental challenge for Zoom.

00;25;23;13 - 00;25;40;04
Speaker 3
It's really good in that, you know, you can record yourself showing something and then also talking through it. So it becomes a little bit more of a an all in one experience. So I think that's an opportunity probably for any dashboard, the ability to overlay a video recording. If you're talking through the applications, I don't think it exists.

00;25;40;04 - 00;25;41;26
Speaker 1
New feature idea from.

00;25;42;21 - 00;26;15;24
Speaker 4
While I will give kudos to like some of the research agencies that are also like some of them are kind of somewhere between being a research agency and being an ad agency. Like like, let's say Edelman or something like that, where I think they do a really great job of doing PowerPoint based storytelling. I think I think some companies have really bad ahead there because they bring the creative folks in on the presentation creation and they'll do a bunch of stuff like infographics and stuff like as a sort of standard deliverable.

00;26;15;24 - 00;26;36;07
Speaker 4
And so I think some companies have done that really, really well. I don't on the tech side, I've been sort of generally less less impressed. I find that a lot of on the tech side, I think a lot of stuff in tech right now looks like, you know, it looks like dorms circa 1990, clip art stuff like it's like, you know, I'm just going to keep on attacking Dom.

00;26;36;18 - 00;26;40;15
Speaker 4
That's all. That's all it's about.

00;26;40;15 - 00;26;44;28
Speaker 1
Well, Paul's attacking Mike also. Ian's got to attack Dom. Yeah, I mean, it's kind.

00;26;44;28 - 00;26;51;23
Speaker 3
Of it's not even as good as Dom part because it's just the data without the clipboard. The clipboard was right.

00;26;52;02 - 00;26;56;17
Speaker 2
This is what happens with Ian, whereas this chaps, he gets all feisty. That's so happens.

00;26;56;23 - 00;27;04;07
Speaker 4
I do. I get feisty. You know, this way. He's just like that a lot. That's true. It is remote. That's true. That's true.

00;27;05;00 - 00;27;31;22
Speaker 1
Yeah. I was saying before we jumped on that we were recording on a Friday afternoon, which like everyone's like a little loopy on a Friday afternoon. It's a good energy. I'm conscious of time. So I want to ask one final question before we for we leave. We haven't touched too much on this idea of what happens, you know, after the story has been delivered and you're disseminating the information within a client organization, or if you're on the client side, you're sharing it with your stakeholders.

00;27;32;26 - 00;27;50;26
Speaker 1
Have you guys seen or have we done anything that you think is really useful from that perspective of like getting other people within the business to internalize the information or the insights or the story itself? Any examples that you'd want to you'd want to point to?

00;27;51;00 - 00;28;15;19
Speaker 2
We talk a lot about visualization, but we don't talk about how you get to the story. And I think one of the key things around getting to the story is enabling people to understand how to pick up the right information. I understand business strategy. I understand why what might be the right questions should be answering. And so a lot of the things that we've been doing over the last couple of years around, you know, a business acumen, a strategy course for all of our employees or just recently we did.

00;28;15;19 - 00;28;15;29
Speaker 4
Thank you.

00;28;16;00 - 00;28;36;04
Speaker 2
Oh, creative problem solving workshop for the employees are things that how do we enable our people to think in a way that's more critical of the information and be able to pull out those pieces so that they can create a nice visual that's also meaningful. So otherwise you get a visual and it's not to say meaningful, but you need to tell that story and then make that story saying.

00;28;36;12 - 00;28;36;26
Speaker 2
And I thought.

00;28;36;26 - 00;28;40;22
Speaker 4
You would have attacked me on that one for sure. That was still used.

00;28;41;08 - 00;29;01;06
Speaker 2
I still use it. Yeah, yeah. Just recap. Ian had this, like, amazing. It was all animation in PowerPoint that talked about the evolution of the industry and it was all these mountains of different types of companies from traditional market research all the way to strategic consultancies and everything in between, and how the industry evolved with these mountains that had it moved across the page.

00;29;01;06 - 00;29;07;21
Speaker 2
It was honestly, it was beautiful. I just don't know how long that took you. I feel like that took you a really long time.

00;29;07;21 - 00;29;13;09
Speaker 4
I think we went on vacation for three weeks, was just working on that PowerPoint way too long. Just that.

00;29;13;09 - 00;29;14;08
Speaker 1
One slide.

00;29;15;19 - 00;29;16;00
Speaker 4
That.

00;29;16;07 - 00;29;35;08
Speaker 3
That getting back to Megan's question about like how information moves through an organization, I think Ian's Mountains presentation is actually a good example because what you need is a super, super simple story, and the further it'll move within an organization, the simpler it is. It's something that people can summarize in a sentence, two sentences. It can move through an organization.

00;29;35;08 - 00;29;46;10
Speaker 3
If it's something where you need a ten minute conversation, it's really limited how far can go. So I think that's the thing too. It's like people need to be able to boil it down to its absolute essence in order for that information to become more mobile.

00;29;46;23 - 00;29;54;26
Speaker 2
Yeah, but that's also what we have to do as an organization ourselves is as be able to provide those. What's the essence, which I think Tom has done a great job of implementing.

00;29;57;00 - 00;29;57;29
Speaker 4
Thinking on.

00;30;01;11 - 00;30;07;19
Speaker 1
Awesome guys. Well, thank you so much for joining me this month. We will back we back next month. Take care.

00;30;07;21 - 00;30;12;26
Speaker 3
Thanks, Meghan.

00;30;12;26 - 00;30;19;24
Speaker 1
Thanks for tuning in this week. Find us on LinkedIn at Digg Insights. And don't forget to hit subscribe for a weekly dose of fresh content.