00;00;02;23 - 00;00;18;26
VO
Welcome to Dig In, the podcast brought to you by Dig Insights. Each week Jess Gaedeke chats with world class brand professionals to bring you the story behind the story of some of the most breakthrough innovations, marketing tactics, and campaigns.

00;00;18;29 - 00;00;36;10
Jess
Hello, everybody, and welcome to the Dig In podcast. This is Jess Gaedeke and I am so thrilled to be joined today by a longtime friend of Dig’s but a new friend to me. We have Elizabeth Nowicki, Senior Manager of Customer Insights at the Home Depot Canada. Elizabeth, thank you so much for joining us. That means a lot to us.

00;00;36;16 - 00;00;38;09
Elizabeth
Yeah, No problem. I'm happy to be here.

00;00;38;09 - 00;00;41;14
Jess
So let's start with you telling our listeners a little bit about your background.

00;00;41;15 - 00;01;08;22
Elizabeth
Sure. Yes. So I am at the Home Depot, Canada now, but yeah, I've been in the market research industry for, I'd say probably almost 18 years. I actually have spent a lot of that on the supplier side of research. So I went to Georgian College for the Research analyst program. I started at Millward Brown because I actually began my interest and career in market research with a passion for advertising research because

00;01;08;22 - 00;01;31;28
Elizabeth
I'm one of those really rare people who actually knew I wanted to do market research for years. Like since I was a teenager when I was younger, I loved advertising and I just always knew I wasn't creative. I was more analytical. I never thought I could come up with jingles or slogans, things like that. So one day my teacher in school told me about advertising testing, and I was like, that's so cool.

00;01;31;28 - 00;01;52;09
Elizabeth
So yeah, went to school, started at Millward Brown so I could get into advertising testing. But sure enough, once I was there, I was like, Holy smokes, there's a whole bigger, wider world of research out there, a lot more it could be doing that I thought was interesting and intriguing. So I ended up actually leaving Millward Brown, went to Environics Research Group for about seven years.

00;01;52;16 - 00;02;12;00
Elizabeth
Had an awesome time there with a great group of people learning a lot more about wider, a wider breadth of research. But then I wanted to try a stint on the client side. I kind of felt like I really, you know, ramped up my research skills in terms of like that foundational technical side of it, but wanted to get more experience with, you know, applying that research.

00;02;12;02 - 00;02;30;08
Elizabeth
So I went to Maple Leaf Foods for two years, but then left to come back to the supplier side because I wasn't quite the right fit at that company, like the culture or things like that, not the job, but then came to Dig Insights. So worked with all of your colleagues for a great about six years and then realized I think I want to go back to the client side.

00;02;30;08 - 00;02;36;06
Elizabeth
I'm ready to try that again. And then landed at Home Depot and I've been at Home Depot for about the last year.

00;02;36;11 - 00;02;54;12
Jess
That's awesome. And we are going to dig into that part in that transition because I know it's relevant to a lot of our listeners. So we typically get started with an impromptu question. I had one queued up, but I'm actually going to change it, given what you just talked about with your background. So what's the first television commercial you remember as a child?

00;02;54;14 - 00;03;12;04
Elizabeth
That's a good question. First, I don't know, Maple Leaf Foods back in the day, I don't know if it was like late eighties early nineties, had a commercial with a slogan “Back off, get your own sandwich”. And so that's one of the earliest ones, actually, I can remember that. I just remember thinking it's so funny because it was abstract, right?

00;03;12;04 - 00;03;31;07
Elizabeth
Like it’s basically kids in a, I forget if it was a karate or judo class and the teacher’s basically telling them or teaching them how to defend their sandwiches at school. So it just like the fact that it was creative, it was kind of a little off the wall, but did land well in that it delivered the message, right, that this was going to be an in-demand sandwich.

00;03;31;07 - 00;03;37;21
Elizabeth
So I just thought it was a cool thing that sparked my interest. And then that I guess, got my career rolling, really.

00;03;37;23 - 00;04;01;12
Jess
That's awesome. I love those memorable ones. That's great. Okay, cool. Well, let's dig in. So our listeners really do crave inspiration from other leaders. And I think one of the best ways to inspire is to tell a story. And you talked about making a couple of career shifts from the supplier side to the client side. And I think a lot of our listeners have thought about doing that or have maybe already gone through that.

00;04;01;14 - 00;04;08;26
Jess
And so I'd love to hear a little bit about that. What was attractive to you about a client side role? Like where did that idea originate with you?

00;04;09;04 - 00;04;31;11
Elizabeth
It probably, well, certainly because I went to the client side first when I was at the time working at Environics Research Group, jumping to Maple Leaf Foods. And there was definitely the feeling of that idea. I know how to execute research now, but I don't have as much depth in experience of applying that research right in an organization, putting it into strategy and really like actioning it.

00;04;31;13 - 00;04;47;14
Elizabeth
So it was kind of a point just in my career where I’m like I think there's a like a real level of opportunity here. I'm kind of, you know, maxing out my learning on the supplier side. So that's what really triggered me to go to the client side and like get that broader exposure of what research can do for a company.

00;04;47;14 - 00;04;57;02
Jess
So you've been at the Home Depot now for a little over a year, and do you feel like you've now adjusted to that different pace and that different set of corporate standards, if you will?

00;04;57;04 - 00;05;26;15
Elizabeth
Definitely. Although I feel like I'm trying to change it a little bit. It's like, okay, I've adjusted myself to work a little bit more at that pace and with the expectations, but also trying to certainly because I come from the supplier side, is to bring those skills in-house to Home Depot. So let us be more agile with research, let us to be able to get our hands deeper into this research and do more with it ideally more quickly as well, so we can turn the results around and findings faster for the business.

00;05;26;15 - 00;05;45;00
Elizabeth
Because yeah, again, that was maybe a surprise. On the supplier side, you're working on a report trying to meet a deadline. It's very structured in the sense of we need a report done by this time for the client. They're going to report it out. But now that I'm on the other side of the table, I'm realizing you received the report.

00;05;45;06 - 00;05;50;25
Elizabeth
But sometimes that share out of the results and the socializing is a really long process.

00;05;50;27 - 00;06;12;10
Jess
Yeah, no, I think that's something on the supplier side too, that we kind of have FOMO about because you work so hard on getting this research project out the door and delivering meaningful insight. But in most cases it's left to the client side to deploy and socialize and really embed those learnings. So it sounds like you're doing some things to change that.

00;06;12;10 - 00;06;23;02
Jess
Are there any specific examples of things that you're doing that makes that sort of fulfilling for you as a professional, but also hopefully really productive and actionable for your company?

00;06;23;04 - 00;06;47;22
Elizabeth
Yeah, what am I doing, that's a great question. It's kind of just maybe it seems not sexy to me, but it's that idea, obviously I have those research supplier skills, so trying to do a little bit more of what we call at least light touch studies, meaning we're not engaging a full service research supplier to execute everything because A, we can do it a little quicker in-house ourselves.

00;06;47;25 - 00;07;11;29
Elizabeth
It can save us some money, stretch our budget further when we have very tight budgets and then really just enables my team to be able to get deeper into that data because we're working with it. So we get a deeper understanding of what's happening, to speak to it better as we present it as well. So I feel like that is just bringing smarter insights to the company because we have some of that flexibility now on the team.

00;07;12;01 - 00;07;21;23
Elizabeth
It was there before, but again, I'm trying to expand it and grow it to make it just faster insights, deeper insights and delivered more quickly to the people who need it.

00;07;21;25 - 00;07;41;25
Jess
Sure. No, I'm sure that's really helpful perspective for your team to have. And now that you're on the client side, I'm wondering, do you have higher expectations for your research suppliers or are you easier in some ways? Like how does that empathy angle work? Having come from what I call the dark side of being on the supplier to the clients?

00;07;41;27 - 00;08;07;26
Elizabeth
Yes, definitely have empathy. A lot of empathy now, because I know how obviously, you know, strapped people can be on the supplier side. You're working with multiple clients. Multiple deadlines are conflicting. Clients don't care that you have another client to work on sometimes. So I'm definitely a lot more empathetic to that with my clients. But my expectations, I would say, have changed a little bit because I know how the sausage is made.

00;08;07;26 - 00;08;24;28
Elizabeth
At least now, right? Like of being recently on the supplier side, that won't exist for long. As I'm sure you know, research methodologies will evolve. Technology becomes more of a play. I know I'm going to fall behind on that and rely on my suppliers like Dig, you know, to teach me, keep me up to date on the newest methodologies.

00;08;25;05 - 00;08;46;02
Elizabeth
But I feel like right now I know what those suppliers do. I know how much effort they're putting in and you know how much things cost even as well. So my expectations, I would say, have changed because I'm empathetic to what they're working through. But I also have higher expectations on I know how we can push like the key insights and the recommendations harder.

00;08;46;04 - 00;09;13;07
Elizabeth
I've written them from the supplier side before, but now that I'm on the client side, I can see how people actually digest the information in the types of data they struggle with versus the types of data they really get and then grab on to and actually want to action with. I want to steer now my suppliers more in the direction of obviously those insights that are more digestible for the organization, which sometimes is a lot more simplified than what we do on the supplier side.

00;09;13;14 - 00;09;35;26
Elizabeth
Like, I'm just thinking of some of those reports I used to write back in the day, very detailed a lot of information on the slides where I get back from some people now and I'm really stripping out information like, let's simplify this for the company, really just focus on what is that key ah-ha. And not bog them down with other details because I know the details and I want to know those details so I can speak to them if I need to.

00;09;35;28 - 00;09;49;21
Elizabeth
But they don't need to know it now and it's just going to overwhelm them if I tell them all that information right now. So tell my stakeholders what they need to know to get rolling today with whatever their project is. And then I've got that knowledge hub if you know, they want to tap into it later.

00;09;49;23 - 00;10;12;21
Jess
Right, well, you know at Dig we believe data does not equal decisions and it's that careful interpretation and deployment of the results that really has the impact so, I'm glad you're setting the bar high. So in that realm, then, if you think about, you know, suppliers that are just wanting to do the best for their clients, what's one piece of advice you give a supplier that just wants to do better?

00;10;12;23 - 00;10;39;16
Elizabeth
Definitely. It maybe sounds obvious, but know your audience in the sense of not just the client contact you're working with, but who they're then socializing it to. And then, like I said, that degree of information. How much information does the end user really need? Because that will save us time if we are getting reports from a supplier where it's already kind of culled down, really just high level points focused on the main message.

00;10;39;23 - 00;11;04;26
Elizabeth
It reduces the workload I have to do to trim that report down. And then like I said, it just is so much more digestible and appreciated by the organization and that's what actually gets them excited about research when it is not too overwhelming, not too overbearing, and it makes them want to do more. And then they are like, I need to talk to customers more next time when I'm working on this project because I've got so much good data out of that last study.

00;11;04;28 - 00;11;18;27
Elizabeth
And then sometimes I'm laughing, someone’s like you didn't get that much data. There's a lot more that exists I was holding back, but you know what I mean? It's that again, just gets them rolling on what they're working on and inspires them to think outside of the box, really.

00;11;19;00 - 00;11;31;18
Jess
Yeah. Excellent. So I guess just to wrap up this part of your career, you've only started at Home Depot so many more successes to come, but what's been your biggest takeaway so far from your client side experience?

00;11;31;20 - 00;11;52;27
Elizabeth
It's a very rewarding, at least for me, a very rewarding side of the business to be able to see how those insights are really impacting and to hear other people take your insights and talk about them elsewhere. Like I'll be in a meeting and someone's referencing something from my report from a few months ago. That feels so good.

00;11;52;27 - 00;12;10;17
Elizabeth
I love it when somebody is like, I'm just like, Yes, they're using my data and they understood it and again, they're applying it or using it to, you know, start conversations elsewhere. I find that just so rewarding. And so I really enjoy the client side because of that. You get a lot of that, just like immediate positive feedback.

00;12;10;17 - 00;12;23;11
Elizabeth
Because on the supplier side, I may send a report and obviously the client contacts like, great, thank you, but you don't always hear what goes on after that. So this is just being closer to all of those conversations, which is nice.

00;12;23;13 - 00;12;38;23
Jess
The closest I've come to that, having never been on the client side, is I was able to attend one of my client's national sales meetings where they were presenting a lot of the results that we had delivered to sort of inform their sales teams and get them excited. And it was like I was watching my kids graduate on stage or something.

00;12;38;23 - 00;12;41;29
Jess
I was so excited, like, see,

00;12;41;29 - 00;12;42;11
Elizabeth
Yeah!

00;12;42;14 - 00;13;02;16
Jess
see, see what I did. But there's nothing better than and knowing that it's impacting decision. So thanks for sharing all that perspective. So let's turn now to you as a thought leader and you know, in your industry, in your organization, I'd love to know what is one of your most controversial or maybe passionate opinions about the state of insights right now?

00;13;02;18 - 00;13;26;10
Elizabeth
I still have a lot of concern about data quality these days with, you know, obviously there's a lot of bots and things like that, but just with people's attention spans, not wanting to do long surveys, not wanting to answer, just, you know, those grids, those complicated, like too wordy of a question that causes problems. So for me, maybe it's not controversial, but it's just that idea.

00;13;26;12 - 00;13;47;04
Elizabeth
It's on my mind. A lot of I need to figure out how to solve this because panel providers are trying to work on it, but it's not fully solved yet. I still see sometimes data that comes in that looks wonky or whatever, so trying to be really proactive and find smarter ways to do that I think is like a hot thing right now, at least again, for me.

00;13;47;06 - 00;14;02;29
Jess
Yeah, but it's something that I think there are differing opinions on how to fix it. And I think that if we don't fix it, our entire discipline is in question and that's the last thing that we want within the walls of your building, right? To say, let's question the insights that are supposed to be driving the business. So yeah, I agree with you.

00;14;02;29 - 00;14;13;28
Jess
And obviously we have ways that we're certainly combating that and taking a leadership stance. But it's something as an industry that needs to be solved. So I'm glad you raised it.

00;14;13;28 - 00;14;45;03
Elizabeth
The funny thing is, I've always thought I did not enjoy presenting until I came to Home Depot. I now really enjoy presenting because and I think it's because I have more of that vested interest in where the results are going now. So that's something that's like passionate for me now that I never thought I would be saying that because it is really rewarding when you have colleagues that you know what they're kind of working towards, how they work as well.

00;14;45;03 - 00;15;06;25
Elizabeth
Just in terms of their personalities. You're familiar with being able to present to them and have like deep conversations about data because you're not just a supplier coming in for a presentation and you walk out and, you know, I felt at least when I was on the supplier role in the past, you know, there is conversation that happens in the room while you're having a presentation, but it only goes so deep.

00;15;06;27 - 00;15;27;03
Elizabeth
It only goes so wide as well, because usually one hour presentation, then everybody leaves the room, so you don't hear the conversations afterwards. But now that we can kind of slow that down because I'm presenting a lot of insights at the company, I can allocate time that we have a good chunk of conversation at the end of that presentation.

00;15;27;05 - 00;15;49;05
Elizabeth
It just is really interesting and I'm just enjoying facilitating those conversations, being the thought starter, pushing people to think outside of the box or just think differently about what they're working on or the category or whatever it is. That's just really cool. So like I said, never, ever, ever thought I would be somebody that likes presenting, but I do now.

00;15;49;05 - 00;15;50;25
Elizabeth
So that's something that's becoming a passion.

00;15;50;25 - 00;16;11;29
Jess
I love that, though. Yeah. It's like, you know, later in your career, all of a sudden it's like PowerPoint slides does it for you. I love that. That's like kind of, yeah, that's great. And I'm sure it lights you up when you get to do it. So, you know, along those lines, like what else is new? What kind of new tools or approaches or frameworks are you finding valuable in your work today?

00;16;12;01 - 00;16;37;21
Elizabeth
Definitely AI. Obviously hot topic in the whole industry see a lot of publications on it, but trying to find the right role for AI for us because obviously like a big company like Home Depot is very protective about we don't want our company information not publicly available on the Internet and so we don't want to just throw anything into experimental models right now, but we're going to need to. Like to me, that is obviously an imperative.

00;16;37;21 - 00;17;05;21
Elizabeth
We're going to have to be able to work with that soon so trying to find the right solutions for that right now, I think is key. Finding the right applications as well, because you obviously want to protect certain data, don't want to put everything into a tool. Mind you, I know some are in sandboxes or not publicly on the Internet, but again, it’s just all that there's still a little bit of hesitance around using AI tools on the client side.

00;17;05;21 - 00;17;11;15
Elizabeth
But I want to try to adapt more of that because it is the future and I need to stay in touch with that. But I definitely will need to learn or lean on my research suppliers to help support me with that.

00;17;11;21 - 00;17;43;05
Jess
Well, you're not alone with that feeling, right? And a lot of clients, I think, are worried that they might be missing out on the next thing or they're being asked by their leadership, What are we doing about AI? And so we're trying to enable those conversations. But, you know, I think that in our industry, perhaps more than most others, there's a really interesting applications for not only how to be more efficient, which is kind of an obvious one, but how to be smarter, how to ask better questions, how to get better probes and follow ups, and then how to analyze that in a way that takes you to the next level.

00;17;43;05 - 00;18;09;25
Jess
So there's the efficiency play, but I'm into like the insight play I'm into how can we just be monumentally smarter with the use of AI? And so you're in the retail industry, you're in a company that is focused on a really important human need of home improvement and making sort of lives better in that way. So what's your hot take on the future of the retail industry, particularly in the space that Home Depot operates in?

00;18;09;27 - 00;18;35;18
Elizabeth
I would definitely it's again, maybe obvious, but retail experiences need to be interconnected like that for sure, right? It's not just brick and mortar shopping avenues or just e-com. They're working together in conjunction, right? Like people browsing stores in person first, but then going home to make the purchase online or looking online first, then going to make the purchase in the store or going to the store, then pulling up their phone while they're in the store.

00;18;35;20 - 00;19;05;27
Elizabeth
So we're really learning that's critical to make sure all these pieces are working together in conjunction, delivering consistent messages and delivering consistent experiences, which isn't that easy, as I've learned. Like I'm not a techie person, never involved in like programing websites or anything like that, but it sure is an eye opener since I've come to the Home Depot of how complicated that actually is, how much manpower it takes, and computer power, of course, but just a lot of resources required in that.

00;19;05;27 - 00;19;31;09
Elizabeth
So it's not an easy thing to solve by any means, but we have to just because obviously that's the way the whole world is going. So I do think especially in home improvement, there's always a role, or at least for the foreseeable future, there will always be a role for physical stores, you know, brick and mortar channels because a lot of home improvement products, people still want to feel touch see before they buy. It’s style, right?

00;19;31;12 - 00;19;49;08
Elizabeth
There might be a nice lamp I like and it looks good online, but once you see it in real life, the metal finish doesn't look right anymore, Rright? So it's not like we just need to focus on how do we ramp up our e-com channel. It's about the holistic experience they have to work together. And I think like all retailers obviously are working on it.

00;19;49;10 - 00;19;52;16
Elizabeth
But yeah, there's an opportunity to be better.

00;19;52;18 - 00;20;11;05
Jess
Yeah, well I think that all the rage a couple of years ago, particularly with the pandemic, it was amplified by this idea of omni channel and you need to have an omni channel strategy. I almost feel like it's omni experience now because it's not just where people are buying the products, it's where they're becoming aware and where they're interacting and where they're asking questions and being curious.

00;20;11;05 - 00;20;31;02
Jess
And so there's a lot to think about for a brand today. So that omni experience is something particularly in your industry, something to watch in the future. Okay, let's move to the final dig. This is all about you as a consumer. Feel free to take off your professional hat if you wish for a moment. This supposed to be fun.

00;20;31;05 - 00;20;34;20
Jess
What's the last product or service that you bought on impulse?

00;20;34;22 - 00;20;48;06
Elizabeth
That was a ring, just a gold ring that I saw online. I was just browsing in front of the TV and sure enough, you know, I was like, I just I don't know why. It was pretty. I wanted it didn't need it. I didn't need to spend the money, but I did.

00;20;48;06 - 00;21;07;15
Jess
It grabbed your attention. That's great. Beautiful. You know, we need to treat ourselves now and then, so I'm glad you did that. That makes me happy. Brands have distinct personalities, and we know this, right? Being professionals in the industry. So what's a brand that you would want to date and maybe a brand that you want to marry? They sometimes are the same brands.

00;21;07;15 - 00;21;08;12
Jess
Not always.

00;21;08;14 - 00;21;34;18
Elizabeth
Yes, this one would be the same brand. And anybody who knows me and a lot of people at Dig Insights will know already know the answer to this question. But Coca-Cola would be my brand. I have a lot of love for Coke just because I enjoy drinking it. But it's funny that you say, which is a brand you would marry because my husband works for Coca-Cola, so I literally did marry Coca-Cola.

00;21;34;21 - 00;21;44;07
Jess
I love it. So aside from the taste and the fact that your husband works there, what is it about the brand that really makes it one that you'd want to court and then spend the rest of your life with?

00;21;44;08 - 00;22;07;20
Elizabeth
Yeah, well, definitely. Like I obviously started drinking as a kid because probably most people do, but it just was always like, it's a consistent brand. You can always, you know, it is what you get. It's never really changed. Obviously, they've had like New Coke and Diet Coke and stuff like that. But Coke Classic has always been Coke Classic. You know, I can essentially know

00;22;07;22 - 00;22;27;25
Elizabeth
what I'm getting every time, but it's always associated with happiness to me. Like I guess they're advertising. That's it. The advertising worked really well. They're associated with polar bears and Santa all happy things, ads always showing fun, people enjoying each other like each other's company. So somehow it just yeah. Was resonated with me and I just like the taste of it. So it's created a brand love.

00;22;27;26 - 00;22;33;08
Jess
That's awesome. Was your husband working for Coke when you met him? Was this part of the attraction?

00;22;33;11 - 00;22;40;04
Elizabeth
It wasn’t part of the attraction, but I like to tease that it was and he always said oh it’s just my job.

00;22;40;07 - 00;22;50;03
Jess
That's amazing. That's very cute. Well, hey, if it works, it works. And yeah, remain a loyalist. I love it. So, Elizabeth, what keeps you inspired at work?

00;22;50;05 - 00;23;12;13
Elizabeth
The people, the people, the culture is really to me, it's so important to work with people you enjoy, you obviously trust and can rely on, but you can have a personal relationship with because as I've always said, you spend so much time at work five days a week, 8 hours a day at least. You know, when you're at home, those weekdays, you're sleeping

00;23;12;13 - 00;23;35;26
Elizabeth
a lot of the time. So I don't see my family as much as I do my colleagues during the work week. So I need to make sure, you know, I enjoy their company too, and can work well with them so that I find just motivates me, inspires me to be around good people, smart people, fun people and supportive people.

00;23;35;26 - 00;23;59;03
Elizabeth
Yeah. And then obviously getting that feedback, feedback to actually, I should say, because that's also a real eye opener. Being on the client side now is you get a ton more feedback through the research because you're constantly literally every day dealing with stakeholders, translating insights, just socializing insights. Where again on the supplier side it might be like once a week or something. I'm delivering a report, so I'll hear back that one day. But this is every day somebody telling you like, great insights or that was really helpful.

00;23;59;03 - 00;24;04;08
Elizabeth
So that's very motivating to get that feedback that again, what you're doing is meaningful.

00;24;04;10 - 00;24;19;23
Jess
That's wonderful. I'm glad that you get that played back to you every day. So. Well. I will reiterate that the work you're doing is meaningful and we certainly appreciate your friendship and partnership here at Dig. Thank you so much for joining us today on Dig In. We learned a lot and appreciate you joining.

00;24;20;00 - 00;24;22;08
Elizabeth
No problem. Thanks for having me again.

00;24;22;10 - 00;24;29;21
VO
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