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Speaker 1
Hi. Welcome to Dig in the podcast brought to you by Digg Insights. Every week we.

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Speaker 2
Interview founders, marketers and researchers from innovative brands to learn how they're approaching their role and their category in a clever way.

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Speaker 1
Welcome back to this week's episode of Dig In. Today I'm joined by Alice, who's the founder RA Rev. We're going to talk a little bit about how while Rev has helped to nudge veganism into the mainstream through their products. We're going to talk a little bit about Alice's experience as an entrepreneur and what their approach to product innovation is.

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Speaker 1
Alice, so nice to see you again.

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Speaker 3
Yes, thank you so much for having me on the show.

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Speaker 1
Yeah, amazing. All right. Without further ado, tell us a little bit about Ra Ra.

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Speaker 3
Yeah, sure. Well, Gov is a vegan and we currently make energy bars. We have seven flavors that I started in 2004. Let's see. The inspiration came to me after I took my two year old son to the grocery store. He is 22 years old now, so it says how long I've been in business. I was frustrated at the time because I was rushing into the store one day and he was reaching for all the eye level cookies and junk food.

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Speaker 3
And I was trying to get out of there while I was tired. I want to go home, make dinner. And so I went home and I said, you know, there's got to be a better way. So I started making snacks from the amount of fruit and nuts I would take like a day, a day, and I would stuff it with almond butter or peanut butter.

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Speaker 3
And he loved it. Oh, he would eat those all day. And then I started making pies and cookies and different treats for him. And then his friends were coming over and they were eating them. And then the moms are like, Oh my goodness, my kids are eating these. What are they? And they were asking if they could buy some for me.

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Speaker 3
And then I said, Well, you know what? Maybe I could start a business. And so that's how bread was born. So all of our products now are nut based and vegan and super healthy. Like we use brown rice protein, pea protein, really healthy ingredients and also flax protein. Yeah. So I hope that was a sort of long answer to your question.

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Speaker 1
No, that's that's great. That's always it's always really good to hear kind of context. I mean, in your background, you're actually a registered nurse, aren't you?

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Speaker 3
Yes. So I had worked as a nurse for about approximately 19 years early in my or sort of mid in my nursing career. You know, I'd seen a lot of people suffering from chronic disease and what can happen from a poor lifestyle, choice and habits. And I had stumbled upon a radio station sort of in the middle of the dial of my radio.

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Speaker 3
I live in New York, and it was a gentleman who was talking about holistic health and talking about how childhood ear infections be caused by food allergies and basically that food and what you eat is at the root of every almost every ailment. And I start I just became a had a voracious appetite for like, no pun intended for reading up on all of that and reading it, listening to every single one of his episodes.

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Speaker 3
And I became a vegan and my sinus infections went away. So I became and then started incorporating that into teaching my patients about healthy habits and eating and your staying away from chemicals and preservatives and, and recognizing what preservatives are really not good for you, like nitrates and things like that. So and trying to eat less meat in your diet.

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Speaker 3
So it became a passion of mine. And then I also incorporated I went to Chef School at night, so incorporated, learning how to prepare these foods so that people would eat it. And my family member and my family, too.

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Speaker 1
That's cool. I mean, that's like a triple threat. They're like, you have the background of a registered nurse, you're passionate about veganism and you went to school at night. Like, that's a ton of stuff to have on the go. So when was Raw actually created? Like when did the business when did the business start up?

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Speaker 3
I came up with some formulas and recipes in 2003, but we were not actually incorporated until 2004.

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Speaker 1
Very cool. And it's kind of funny. Like when we had it initially charted, we talked about how veganism was kind of like this underground movement back in 2004. Can you talk to me a little bit about like, you know, did you have a community of people that you kind of have collaborated with that we're really into like holistic nutrition or veganism?

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Speaker 1
How did that kind of impact the trajectory of your company?

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Speaker 3
So yeah, so it was it was really not just veganism, it was raw veganism. So it was sort of like when I was like, there is vegetarians, right? So in the seventies, vegetarians, it wasn't that popular and then started becoming more in the mainstream in the eighties and nineties, but in the late nineties, this whole raw food thing became almost like a little craze, like an underground movement.

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Speaker 3
We would have potlucks and there were classes and I started attending them and they were different, like potluck groups. I don't even remember looking back how I found out about these groups probably is word of mouth, but we'll go and share a recipe like I would bring a raw pie. We figured out how to make avocado pudding and we would share our formulas.

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Speaker 3
There was one particular time where I went to one and someone had brought in a cookie. It was made out of like soaked macadamias and oh, what's the fruit? Apricots and oh my gosh, I was it was like two ingredients. I was like, this is incredible. So I went home and tried to make it. So we got inspiration from each other.

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Speaker 3
And yeah, it was it was a really fun time. They were like raw chocolate parties. And, you know, I had a friend in Brooklyn who had a loft and he would have like I had my little table there with my bars and they were, you know, other founders with some of their products and presenters and talking about it.

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Speaker 3
And we would take notes and there'd be lectures and it was really it was a fun time. So there was definitely a buzz about it that not everybody knew about. But it was it was becoming more mainstream.

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Speaker 1
A little bit. And this is a bit of a naive question, but like raw as well. Why? What are the health benefits of it being raw versus just veganism in general?

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Speaker 3
It was unadulterated, right? So there's no heating. There's no real sort of FDA or, you know, official definition of what raw means. But we were under the belief and understanding years ago that it was anything heated above 100, I think was 108 or 119 degrees would be adulterated or the nutrients would be diminished. The live raw enzymes were, you know, would be taken out.

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Speaker 3
You would still have vitamins and minerals, but not as high of a content of vitamins and minerals. So we were eating, trying to incorporate more raw. I actually was a raw food for a few years. It was not easy to do, but so I wouldn't eat anything that was cooked. But definitely people who did adopt that diet and lifestyle like myself as a my friends, you know, just felt a tremendous amount of energy.

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Speaker 3
Like, you know, your acne cleared up and your digestive issues went away. Wasn't necessarily for everyone, but myself and my friends and colleagues who adopted it felt a lot better then when you feel so good and you look good, you want to tell everybody and tell the world that, you know, it's a great it's a great way to live.

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Speaker 3
It requires a little bit more thought and work. Definitely.

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Speaker 1
Yeah.

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Speaker 3
Definitely discipline. But, you know, something to strive for. And we were always, you know, I guess I'm the type of person I just want to always challenge myself. So I was like, Oh, let's, let's go for it, you know?

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Speaker 1
That's really cool. What was the hardest thing? Or I guess you're vegan now. What's the hardest thing to give up?

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Speaker 3
Probably pasta.

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Speaker 1
Yeah.

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Speaker 3
Pasta or just the movie. I think overall, like the convenience, like we cook food is easier, more accessible and more convenient. But raw foods and like, you know, like, how many days can you just eat a handful of nuts and a banana and a piece of fruit? You know, I think giving up, having dinner with people and being able to order anything off the menu, I that's where I feel like the socializing aspect was a little challenging.

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Speaker 3
And then, you know, if you're if I say I'm driving my kids out to like a Boy Scout meeting in the middle, it's a rural area and you order a salad in a diner. They give you like, you know, just iceberg lettuce in like unripe tomatoes. It's like, well, okay, you know, so things like going out and and incorporating into the lifestyle now, it's so much easier.

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Speaker 3
I mean, there are so many products, but there is nothing back then either, you know, you just did everything yourself or you just eat fruit nuts all day.

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Speaker 1
So yeah, I mean, I know that sounds that sounds really challenging and you're so right. Like, it's, there's so many different products that are vegan and so many different brands that are offering supposedly vegan products. I mean, with raw rub in particular, how did you kind of know that you were on to a winning concept? Like what was the way that you kind of validated?

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Speaker 1
Like, Okay, you know what, I need to scale this business.

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Speaker 3
You know? Sure. So I had come up with some concepts in my own kitchen, you know, produce them in a small incubator factory and then loaded up the back of my car. And I had a health food store in my neighborhood that I frequently visited. And I and I was friendly with the owner and I said, Hey, Neil, you know, would you I had this product that I created there, packaged up.

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Speaker 3
They've got it FDA compliant, I say, and we put stickers on them. I said, Would you put them on the shelf of your store and see if they would sell? And he said, To my surprise, he was like, Yeah, sure, no problem. You know, I'll just check with my my partner and see if that's okay. He put them on the shelf.

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Speaker 3
I remember dropping off specifically like 64 bars, you know, a couple of weeks go by and I'm like wondering why did they sell? So then I called him up and I said, Hey, Neil Dallas. He goes, Oh, yeah, we, we before you say anything, we need another order. They're all sold out. So I that I was incredibly surprised and happy as anything I said.

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Speaker 3
I think I'm on to something here. I said, I just tried out one store. I sold 64 units in a week in two weeks. So I said, okay, let's get more stores, let's make more bars, let's get more stores. So I worked as a nurse during the week and made bars on the weekends and, you know, just continued from there.

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Speaker 1
What's cool and what's your approach to kind of like believe or throw, like, are there different? And I'm sure at the beginning it was just sort of one flavor. But how do you approach that now?

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Speaker 3
Yeah. So what I do is when it comes to flavor, I, I subscribe to Cook's Cook's Illustrated even albeit it's not vegan at all, but they do have some baking recipes. I look there, I look to see what some innovative pastry chefs are doing and I will get some inspiration and say, take a, you know, a cookie dough ice cream or a brownie.

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Speaker 3
You know, I so I just sort of study the ingredients and then I try to mimic that taste of those sort of traditional mainstream desserts with using. Now, I mean, I've been doing formulating now for about 18 years, so I think I'm pretty good at it. I have a lot of relationships with flavor companies and different alternative sugars, you know, like that have zero sugar.

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Speaker 3
And I just I keep working at trying to mimic it has two teas I would say it has to taste great. Then when I take some concepts that I developed and I'm sick of tasting them on my own, I will try them out with family. I know that when I do that, though, your family's biased and they're going to say it was great, but I don't know if I'll get an opinion from them.

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Speaker 3
So I sometimes just walk up to random strangers and say, Hey, would you? You know, we're fine people, you know, to do some tastings and try to get as much feedback as I can and then think if I if I have a winning concept, then I'll work on bringing it to market.

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Speaker 1
And how many flavors do you have now currently? 700 very cool. What's your top flavor?

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Speaker 3
It is peanut butter, dark chocolate and sea salt.

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Speaker 1
Oh, it sounds really good. Very cool. Okay, amazing. Seven, seven different flavors. So we kind of stay on this approach to product innovation. Like, is that kind of how you develop those seven flavors is just tinkering away with different flavor combinations that you're seeing in more traditional sort of pastries or more traditional baked goods, and seeing what stands out as the best tasting bar that you could bring to market.

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Speaker 1
Like, how do you know that? Okay, it's time to to try something new or develop some new packaging for a new product.

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Speaker 3
Well, I mean, we don't want to totally reinvent the wheel, right? So we do look at some of the competition and, you know, we do get data about what's really selling out there in the marketplace. And and then we don't I don't just look at that. I say, you know, I would like to come out with something different or make something better.

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Speaker 3
So, I mean, there's a lot of different factors of what we what I look into like birthday cake. We just really we just we actually not just released. It's our newest addition to the rubber family and of bars. I just think birthday cake is really fun and yeah, like who doesn't like birthday cake? So I do try to I try to keep the consumer in mind and what their preferences are.

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Speaker 3
That's a big part of it. And, you know, also a science to the whole thing, too. You know, it has to be shelf stable. There has to be certain stable possibility of some natural stabilizers. You know, there's there's another science element that has to be, no pun intended, but blended into the whole product concept that has to be incredibly considered and has to be a big part of that, too.

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Speaker 3
So then it still has to taste good and it still has to be shelf stable.

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Speaker 1
Okay. And is the goal to release other sort of snack varieties at some point, or are you guys going to stick with bars?

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Speaker 3
Yes, I do have some new concepts that are not. They are snack items, but they are not in the bar category that are to be released and second, probably second or third quarter next year, which like early spring summer. Yeah, I'm always trying different. I like to challenge myself and try and listen to what I feel consumers want and solve problems or what would make families, you know what it would be?

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Speaker 3
How to make family life easier through, you know, taking the guesswork out of what to feed your children, what to feed your family. You know, in simple, plain language and ingredients, that and of course, it has to taste good or else no one will eat it.

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Speaker 1
So they territorial. And then finally, I will shift gears a little bit to talk about, you know, actually building your business a little bit, but I did want to touch on distribution. So in one of our conversations previously, you kind of mentioned that you had some learnings that you could share about distribution and kind of how you approached it.

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Speaker 1
What has that been like for you, the distribution process and setting that up?

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Speaker 3
Um, well, we, we have, we have obtain just distribution about three years after I, you know, starting the business. It's been okay. I mean, getting distribution is like a chicken or egg scenario, right? So, you know, when you're a new business, the distributors are cautious when you have a product that nobody, you know, consumers don't know about yet, that that's probably the most challenging was probably most challenging piece of the equation, because this that's the part where you have to really, you know, quote unquote, sell to sell yourself to that, not yourself, sell your product to them and you have to promise to support them if they take you in with different discounts and circulars

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Speaker 3
and ads. So in the beginning is hard, but what we did was I, I had already had 70 accounts that I had gotten out on my own by going, you know, getting my foot in the door, going door to door to these health food stores. So I went up to the distributors. I said, Hey, I have seven accounts.

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Speaker 3
Like, I don't want to do this anymore. Like, please take them from me. So that made a big difference if I just went up to them, you know, just called and said, Hey, I just take my product. Everyone's going to love it. They really will, you know. Well, prove it, right? How do we know? Especially it was almost like a whole new category, too, right?

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Speaker 3
So there were always like the cliffhangers and that whatever the the other one was the power bars out there, but it was a new bar, a new concept. And they weren't necessarily sure. But I mean, since then, since we got into you and if I which is the largest natural food distributor in the country, you know, just sort of game placement from there and you build a relationship with the trust.

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Speaker 3
So, you know, it's yeah, so it's working for us still and it worked for us back then.

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Speaker 1
I think that's a really interesting insight though, this idea of like, you know, pounding the pavement. If I'm going to use a really traditional language, really pounding the pavement and getting yourself into some of these local shops, like having accumulated 70 accounts, that's a big deal to be able to go to a distributor and say, like, hey, this is where we're at.

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Speaker 1
Clearly, you know, we have recurring relationships with these folks. You know, we could actually be a benefit to you. That's really cool. I didn't realize when we initially talked that you had that many accounts. That's amazing. I'm okay. As I said, switching gears a little bit, I want to talk about you as an entrepreneur and building your business.

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Speaker 1
Like, what is that experience been like for you? I know you mentioned you started it, you know, ages ago you were a registered nurse. Like, how was the transition from, you know, being a nurse full time to being an entrepreneur full time? And then yeah, how would you kind of enjoy that up to this point?

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Speaker 3
Oh, that's a big question. I'll try not to make it to elaborate, but I mean, in the beginning, you know, there's also this trepidation, right? So I leave my career of 18 years to I actually worked for about three years after I sort of probab as I work weekends as a nurse. So I never I didn't give up my nursing job until I felt that it was time to, to depart.

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Speaker 3
And I, I had a hard time having my full time attention on both. Plus I had a PhD at that point, like a five year old, right? So I always kept the relationship with my nursing business, my nursing job, just in case I ever had to go back. But I love being an entrepreneur. It was real. I mean, the first few years were really difficult.

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Speaker 3
I mean, it didn't turn a profit for a while and and it was scary. And you have to be able to be with that. There were a lot of learnings along the way. I didn't really have a lot of solid business experience. I don't have an MBA, so I didn't even have like so there was just a lot of making mistakes and learning from the mistakes.

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Speaker 3
And you know, I'm an avid sort of obtain more of advice from other people and I yeah, so many questions. If I feel someone can help me with some issue I'm having, I start to ask away. So I think I love the challenge. It's sort of in my DNA and I love working with people and I can't I can't imagine not doing anything else or.

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Speaker 3
Yeah, so.

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Speaker 1
What what would you say have been your biggest wins up to this point from a business standpoint?

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Speaker 3
Well, I mean, just being where we are is a huge win, being able to compete in this very crowded marketplace, gaining our distribution that we.

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Speaker 1
Have.

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Speaker 3
You know, having a really decent following. Oh, gosh, our biggest wins. Yeah, I think gaining the placement that we do. You know, we're in sprouts, we're in Publix, we're in Wegmans. To me, I look back, that's it's a really big accomplishment and we've never taken it and I've never taken in any outside capital. So that probably is the biggest account accomplishment.

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Speaker 1
That's super cool. Okay. And then before we dove into the Rapid Fire question, my last question is just for the listeners out there that are maybe thinking of starting their own business or or thinking of making a switch. What would be your advice for someone who wants to become an entrepreneur? Yes.

00;22;07;18 - 00;22;24;15
Speaker 3
Oh, gosh. And I've given this advice before. You know, I've been pitched by people, oh, I want to do this. I want to be the next PayPal or I want to you know, I think I think the market really needs this. I would say, like figure out what you're good at. You know, there's like three circles that are I'm not exactly sure how have.

00;22;24;15 - 00;22;55;13
Speaker 3
It's like, what are you good at? What does what does the public or what do consumers need? And I forget that there one but I think it's I, I, I didn't look this up before the goal for the podcast, but I think it's, you know, figure out what you're good at and what instead of focusing on the money aspect of it or like trying to like, oh, you know, what, what are my margins and what, where the price point, like, what do you have to offer that somebody would want to purchase?

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Speaker 3
Right. Either a service or a product. What how how can you make a difference? How can you make somebody's life better? Start asking those questions if if you don't come up with anything in the beginning, just write it. Write down anything. Write down. Like, what did you like to do as a kid? Like for me it was two things.

00;23;12;26 - 00;23;35;20
Speaker 3
It was either playing music or it was starting like I was always like starting businesses as a child, right? Like at my birthday party and managing people. Like, what did you try to remember what you like to do as a kid? You know, maybe like to work in the kitchen with your mom or you like mowing lawns with your dad and try to figure out how your gifts or what you learned or what you know, what you're not sure what you want to know, how you can.

00;23;36;07 - 00;24;02;12
Speaker 3
That's how it can make a difference. But I would say start from there. Don't think way too big to start small and start small. Be humble and work and work, you know, slowly, steadily and diligently towards your goal and embrace all of the challenges and setbacks you have and keep your eye on every day or keep a journal of every day.

00;24;02;23 - 00;24;18;29
Speaker 3
All those little accomplishments you made that is not really getting a lot of time in your brain because, you know, when we wake up in the morning, we had to face it. What's on our minds, everything in our life that's going wrong, everything that all the problems you're having, all the vendors you have a problem with or somebody is trying to rip you off.

00;24;19;06 - 00;24;41;23
Speaker 3
But think about what actually really worked today and you'll notice over time with your notes, like, wow, like, you know, a few months went by, like I was here and now I'm here. You are moving forward and don't overextend, don't overborrowed, don't overspend and be you know, I'm sort of thrifty and scrappy when it comes to that stuff.

00;24;41;23 - 00;25;05;11
Speaker 1
So just don't overdo it. Yeah, I love that. That's really, really good advice. My rates are closing. We always do. Three Rapidfire questions with all the founders we interview are first being allies of you gained double your budget tomorrow. What would you spend it on.

00;25;05;11 - 00;25;14;27
Speaker 3
Oh okay I would launch a new product that that I have an idea for that is not in the bar category. I would do that right away.

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Speaker 1
Cool. Okay. And what about if you lost half of your budget tomorrow? What would have to go?

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Speaker 3
Wow, I think I would probably we have some vendor partners right now that we're working with that I love, but they're not super critical to the business right now. And I probably have to let them go and then with a promise to retire, then later on, like take them back now.

00;25;40;01 - 00;25;54;21
Speaker 1
So it's tough to lose half your budget. So you have to do something more drastic. Yeah. Yeah. And then finally, what's the coolest new food or drink you've seen on the market lately, other than, of course.

00;25;54;21 - 00;26;12;22
Speaker 3
Oh, that's a tough one. I mean, maybe not so new, is I just keep shaking my head. Oh, amazing. That Impossible Burger is. It's just a major. My daughter always wants to go to the drive thru Burger King and get one, and I don't really eat that much of them, but I take a little bite and I'm like, Oh my God.

00;26;12;22 - 00;26;28;28
Speaker 3
It's like, it's like, reminds me of my childhood when my parents would take me to McDonald's and it's B and it's vegan. That's a game changer, I think, for the whole environment. Being in community thing. And the second one is probably not so new, but it is kind of new is like the whole oat milk ice cream.

00;26;30;03 - 00;26;30;21
Speaker 1
Yeah.

00;26;31;16 - 00;26;44;15
Speaker 3
Yeah. I think that honestly it tastes better than regular dairy ice cream with the more flavor like I love Planet O and I love Oatly. So I think those I don't know when they were launch if they're super new but that's that's.

00;26;45;01 - 00;27;07;16
Speaker 1
Those are the two products I'm I'm a huge fan of the oat milk ice cream and now all I can drink in my coffee is oat milk. Like, I'm not vegan, but I much prefer it. So yeah it's it's funny. World is changing. And on that note, I have to say goodbye to you. This was lovely, Alice. Thank you so much for joining me.

00;27;08;09 - 00;27;12;01
Speaker 1
If people want to find you or us, where. Where should they go?

00;27;13;23 - 00;27;21;05
Speaker 3
Oh, they can reach me at Alice. At Web.com anytime. Yeah. Or by webcam.

00;27;22;16 - 00;27;24;22
Speaker 1
Awesome. All right. Speak to you soon.

00;27;24;27 - 00;27;26;21
Speaker 3
Okay. Thank you so much. Thank you. Take care.

00;27;26;27 - 00;27;31;15
Speaker 1
Bye bye. Bye.

00;27;31;15 - 00;27;38;12
Speaker 2
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