00;00;06;23 - 00;00;33;16
Speaker 1
Hi. Welcome to Dig In the podcast brought to you by Dig Insights. Every week we interview founders, marketers and researchers, from innovative brands to learn how they're approaching their role and their category in a clever way. Welcome back to this week's episode of Dig In. And today I am joined by Febronia Ruocco, who is based out of the UK. Feb,

00;00;33;17 - 00;00;34;07
Speaker 1
how's it going?

00;00;34;08 - 00;00;38;05
Speaker 2
Really good, thank you. It's quite sunny out there today, so it's quite nice.

00;00;39;02 - 00;01;12;26
Speaker 1
It's always nice to talk to someone from from somewhere else. Get a taste of a different accent. But today we're not going to be talking about talking about the weather. We are going to be talking about what it's like to be an insights leader within FMCG or CPG, as we call it in North America. The climate. So you've worked at so many different, you know, cooks or restaurants, different alcoholic beverage or spirits company has some of the biggest, some of the biggest globally.

00;01;12;26 - 00;01;25;14
Speaker 1
So I did I did want to give the listeners a little bit of a background on who you are and where you've been. Would you mind would you mind giving them a little bit of a of a taste of your your previous experience?

00;01;25;16 - 00;01;47;05
Speaker 2
Not at all. I think first of all, thank you very much for inviting me on the podcast. It's a pleasure to be with you today. So a bit about my background. Well, I started off my studies. If we go right back to the beginning in languages and then followed that with postgraduate and international marketing. And I think that's where it all started.

00;01;47;06 - 00;02;13;18
Speaker 2
My passion for marketing, for brands, for different cultures, and that's kind of been a constant throughout my career. So my first marketing job was in Vienna working for Electrolux. So living and working in a foreign country, working on great brands. And I was an assistant to the marketing director, so getting great exposure on brand management, portfolio management, advertising research.

00;02;14;03 - 00;02;42;09
Speaker 2
So that was the foundation. And I think I think it's important to think that I started as a marketeer. That's been fundamental. I think in my trajectory when I came back to the UK, I was very interested in research. So started a journey working in advertising research at the then Noble Brown, working for international clients on big multi country projects and then did about four years agency side.

00;02;42;09 - 00;03;06;21
Speaker 2
So being an account director for people like Procter and Gamble, Nestlé and that's when the Curiosity kind of kicked in and it was the research was very interesting and we found, you know, really valuable insights about the consumer and how they were engaging with the brand and products. But I wanted more. I was like, what do they do with the research on the other side?

00;03;06;21 - 00;03;40;17
Speaker 2
Once I've done my presentation and where does it all go? And I was fascinated by the client side, and that was then when the switch happened. And I've been fortunate enough to work for many of the big brand names. So I had great experiences working with brilliant mortgages, working on fantastic strategies, development of great comms, fantastic innovation, some of it quite stressful at times, but great, great, great, great fun and met some fantastic people along the way and you know, 20 years on, I still love what I do.

00;03;40;18 - 00;03;46;16
Speaker 2
I would do more kind of specific contracts these days, but is still in the same vein.

00;03;46;24 - 00;04;16;27
Speaker 1
Very cool. I mean, yeah, I think I've spoken to a lot of people who work at, you know, big global, big global brands. But I don't know that I've ever spoken to someone, as I mentioned before, has worked at across so many different, you know, well-known brands. And I'm wondering what is the what is sort of the benefit that you've seen of having that kind of wider exposure, I guess, to different organizations and different categories?

00;04;17;04 - 00;04;41;10
Speaker 2
I think it's kind of multifold. You got to experience two different organizational management. So the structures of these companies can vary and be different. So the way the leaders at the top lead can be very different. So that's very interesting. You get a handle on different commercial positions and markets. So if you're working with leading brands, then you're a leading brand portfolio.

00;04;41;10 - 00;05;06;13
Speaker 2
So your challenges of maintaining that stature. So it's a little different to a Challenger brand. You get to work with multicultural teams cross-culturally, working in different market dynamics, different socioeconomic political dynamics. So there's all of that. And then you get to meet the great individuals from those cultures as well. So it's, you know, it's multifaceted, There's lots of different experiences.

00;05;06;13 - 00;05;32;07
Speaker 2
I think keeping a kind of flexibility across different categories can be really helpful for an insider because you then understand what motivates and creates the choice behaviors of a consumer in that category. There's lots of transferable skills that you can move from one category to another. But I think having that flexibility, so when you're faced with a strategic problem, you're not fazed.

00;05;32;09 - 00;05;59;28
Speaker 2
And I think as I started off as a researcher in research agencies at the beginning, after my first marketing job, I learned a vast array of tools and techniques. So that was really helpful because I'm predominantly a quant researcher. I've worked on very big multi-country trackers and segmentations and those types of studies and then over the years done more specific qualitative work.

00;05;59;28 - 00;06;15;07
Speaker 2
But it's just the variety. I think. There's never a dull day. You're always learning, always growing. But within that, different cultural scenarios, different corporate issues, different managerial styles that goes on and on and on.

00;06;16;05 - 00;06;40;10
Speaker 1
And I love that point that you made about flexibility and sort of being flexible. I don't exactly remember how you put it. You put it better than I'm trying to put it now. But can you give me an example of what that looks like? So I'm not expecting you to tell me a specific brand that and you know, their inner workings, but an example of what that looks like to sort of be flexible across different categories when.

00;06;40;10 - 00;07;02;00
Speaker 2
You come in to work on a on an insight role in a big strategic brand portfolio and if that company is in a state of flux. So there's a degree of uncertainty, restructure. The budgets are not signed off. You need to be really flexible and you need to be able to adapt to the uncertainty and the unknowns and feeling comfortable with it.

00;07;02;16 - 00;07;24;22
Speaker 2
So it doesn't deter you from doing the strategic marketing piece. So it's being able to navigate tricky scenarios where there isn't always an answer, but finding your feet so you can get on with the job you need to do and liaise with the stakeholders, find out the strategic issues and come up with the right strategic research plans.

00;07;24;22 - 00;07;53;15
Speaker 1
Okay, cool. That makes sense. So you kind of actually alluded to my next question, which was around this idea of immediately having sort of an impact within an organization as an insights professional. So you you joined friends, you know, like quite a few different brands on a consulting basis sort of go in and and I'm wondering what was your approach as an inside consultant to sort of have them?

00;07;53;25 - 00;08;14;05
Speaker 2
I think first of all, I'm very detailed with going through the recruitment processes. So asking all the right questions, getting a real handle on what the needs of the business are. If I'm going in as a consultant, what is expected of me? How am I going to be able to fulfill those expectations and then there's a lot of preparation.

00;08;14;05 - 00;08;40;20
Speaker 2
So doing research around the company, around the brands, around the different areas of marketing, getting a handle on the marketing strategic piece. So what's the year plan, the five year plan, and also getting to know the stakeholders. It's really important to build those relationships and build trust quickly and at the same time be able to absorb a lot of information and a lot of data quite quickly and synthesize it.

00;08;41;06 - 00;09;02;01
Speaker 2
So in those phases, a lot of rest, a lot of self-care, a lot of preparation and a lot of asking questions, lots and lots of curiosity and humility because, you know, you're going in because you've got a skill set that's desired, but you still need to find out how the business works. So it's a two way reciprocal relationship.

00;09;02;01 - 00;09;04;14
Speaker 2
In order to have impact, you've got to do the groundwork.

00;09;05;24 - 00;09;27;00
Speaker 1
Yeah, I mean, you slightly touched on it, but in our initial conversation before recording, we talked a little bit about sort of become being an empathetic leader. What does that word empathetic or that phrase empathetic leader, What does that mean to you within the context of your experience?

00;09;27;09 - 00;09;49;15
Speaker 2
There's a number of things that underpin it for me. I think, first of all, safety, you have to conduct your conversations and lead your teams in a safe space. So everybody needs to feel they can ask the US the right questions, You can cascade the right information and everybody's on the same page and they can do it without any feeling of being anxious or nervous.

00;09;50;02 - 00;10;19;27
Speaker 2
You then also need to identify with individuals, put yourself in their shoes, be culturally fit from a marketing perspective, What's the other person expecting? What are their attitudes? What are their perspectives? So taking the time to really dialog and understand also, you know, taking the time to really know the commercial piece, you know, being empathetic doesn't mean that you're not commercially focused.

00;10;20;07 - 00;10;47;08
Speaker 2
You bring your softer skills to play in order to push the commercial agenda, and you're still very results driven. So thinking of all those things and giving them equal priority, I think is really important. But also, you know, caring and nurturing for the individuals you want to create a space where people can be authentic. So that's the final kind of area, the place where you can show up to work with your authenticity.

00;10;47;17 - 00;11;15;02
Speaker 1
Yes, I think that that's so important, especially in today's climate, where we're all sort of transitioning from fully remote, working back into the office. You know, the I mean, start that again. The you know, there's just so much up in the air right now in terms of where we're at from a societal perspective. So I completely agree with that.

00;11;15;02 - 00;11;38;07
Speaker 1
That empathy piece is so important. You spoke at the beginning about sort of remaining empathetic. And I mean, do you have any specific frameworks or I don't know, like practical sort of tips for how someone can can engage with that sort of empathetic side of themselves as a leader?

00;11;38;10 - 00;12;10;10
Speaker 2
I think there's a couple of things that we can all intuitively do. So we're all working a lot more online. So really making the time to listen to individuals in the team, making sure everybody gets a voice at team meetings, making sure that, you know, you're really giving your attention to the individuals and the questions that issues their problems, their projects, and doing it genuinely, you know, not doing it because you have to do it for 10 minutes at the end of the meeting.

00;12;10;10 - 00;12;40;21
Speaker 2
But doing it consistently and doing it, you know, really, genuinely and empathetically, I think as well, making making time for some sociability and again, not doing it in a contrived way. So whether you have, you know, an early morning huddle or whatever on a monday start off with, you know, interesting questions about what's everyone done over the weekend, you know, what would they like to show interest in the human side of our lives?

00;12;40;21 - 00;13;06;03
Speaker 2
You know, what's been going on at the weekend. But again, don't just do it because you're paying lip service to it. Do it genuinely because you actually care and are interested. And I think it then creates a genuine connectivity between the other team members and that then translates into support when the work's getting tougher, when there's more challenges and it just translates into better productivity.

00;13;06;19 - 00;13;38;05
Speaker 1
Yeah, I think we've hit the nail on the head there in terms of being an empathetic leader. You can't be contrived. It has to be genuine. Otherwise the empathy kind of goes out the door, like it's not empathy at that point. It's performative. So I think that's such a good take home and actually a a really different way for people to consider leadership from, say, 20 years ago in terms of, you know, focusing on the whole human as opposed to just focusing on sort of their output.

00;13;38;10 - 00;14;00;17
Speaker 2
Yeah, and I think it's important as well, if I may just add to also think about your self-care, because if you're showing up as an empathetic leader, you're giving a lot of your nurturance and attention and focused to others. So you also need to fill your own cup and make sure that you know you're in a good place, that your health and wellness is well catered to.

00;14;00;29 - 00;14;21;26
Speaker 2
So making sure we get enough rest, that we get downtime, that we switch off our phones, all the obvious stuff, but the stuff that's really hard to do when we're really busy. But again, you can't be an example to other people if you're not doing what you're asking them to do. So you have to walk the walk, not just talk the talk.

00;14;21;26 - 00;14;47;12
Speaker 1
Yeah, I mean, frankly, that's something that I, I struggle with when it comes to making sure that you are sort of taking care of yourself, because I'm I fully resonate with what you're saying. Was there anything that sort of has this always been your philosophy or has that was there anything that happened to you from a work context that made you realize, okay, I really need to lean into this self-care side of myself?

00;14;47;13 - 00;15;09;06
Speaker 2
The great, great question and you've really hit the nail on the head. I think none of us are really good at doing the self-care piece until we either get burnt out or get too tired or overworked or overstressed or our performance is suffering. So I think if I'd known when I was younger what I know now, it would have been a tremendous help.

00;15;09;06 - 00;15;34;06
Speaker 2
So hindsight's a beautiful thing, but I think I would have just been able to cope with certain situations better because I would have had the resource within myself to deal with that stressful conversation, that difficult presentation, that busy deadline that was looming. I think you just approach these situations in a calmer, more relaxed, more conducive way when you know you've had a good rest.

00;15;34;16 - 00;15;37;06
Speaker 1
Absolutely. Thanks for being so vulnerable. I appreciate it. Oh, you're.

00;15;37;06 - 00;15;37;23
Speaker 2
Welcome.

00;15;38;07 - 00;16;06;20
Speaker 1
It's it's nice to here because, I mean, you have very impressive, very impressive background. But I think it's we're all human and we're all in need of self care and we're all sort of in need of empathetic leadership ourselves. So, yeah, really appreciate that. I think this ties nicely into the conversation that I wanted to have with you around what it means to be an empathetic leader that's also very effective.

00;16;06;20 - 00;16;29;02
Speaker 1
I think you used the phrase heavy hitter, not in a not in a bad way, not in like, you know, really aggressive way, but someone who really, you know, creates impact within an organization. And I really like that. Like, what do you think that means specifically sort of within the context that you've worked? Give us some examples of sort of yeah, what that looks like.

00;16;29;02 - 00;16;51;09
Speaker 2
Okay. So in some examples where I've been expected to come in and turn things around really quickly, there's an expectation that you're going to forge those stakeholder relationships quickly, get on board with the agendas, be clear about the strategy, be able to choose the right and appropriate methodologies and execute the research and come up with the strategic findings.

00;16;51;09 - 00;17;13;23
Speaker 2
So in order to do that at pace, you need to be confident, You need to ask all the right questions. You need to be curious and you need to be comfortable with not knowing because you don't know. You've just come in the door and you're being expected to do all these things. So you need to know within yourself, I can do this, but I need support to get me to the place that's going to enable me to execute.

00;17;13;23 - 00;17;45;27
Speaker 2
So asking all the right questions, having all the right meetings, aligning all the right people, so being well prepared, being well thought out, having a plan and being empathetic means that you bring those skills to every interaction and you know, you respect the individuals. You speak carefully and choice fully. Even when you're feeling a bit of stress, you try and step back and stay calm and you leverage all the information that's existing within the organization and across departments to help you.

00;17;46;12 - 00;17;53;28
Speaker 2
So not being afraid to to be in the learner seat for a learner who's expected to learn really quickly and deliver very fast.

00;17;54;07 - 00;18;10;10
Speaker 1
Right. When you say making sure you're setting up the right meetings with the right stakeholders, like who would be your go to it's or like, do you have sort of specific people within an organization that you're like, that's the sort of the first or second or third person that I know I need to sit down with?

00;18;10;11 - 00;18;42;22
Speaker 2
Yeah. I mean, obviously your line manager in the roles I've had, I've been supporting marketing at VP level, board level and those individuals don't have a lot of free time. So you need to be able to cut through that in a quick and performing way. So what I tend to do is ask for strategy documents, pieces that I can read, get up to speed on previous research, and then really formulate the key questions that I want to ask in order to push the agenda forwards and use that time as a meet and greet.

00;18;42;22 - 00;19;07;11
Speaker 2
But also here are my top ten questions that I have. I need to get this work going. You look for your support so you, you, you don't waste their time. Being sociable is not wasting time. But for a key senior stakeholder, they like to have value in all the interactions that they have. So giving them that value and showing that you're doing what's needed of you is usually a win win.

00;19;07;11 - 00;19;32;12
Speaker 1
It's a really simple but super effective tip there because you go in with it's almost like going in as it sounds contrived, but it's almost like an interview. Right. And you know, I sent you questions beforehand that I thought would be relevant based on your background. So we're not doing going to that length, but it's nice to know that someone's come in and is prepared to have a conversation with you.

00;19;32;12 - 00;19;51;15
Speaker 2
Or showing them that you've read the strategy and that you have the questions and that you're you've done the thinking shows that you're already ahead of the game. So it means that you're operationally on top of things. And I think that's key for a consultant because you're being brought in to give answers to questions How do we do this?

00;19;51;15 - 00;20;08;19
Speaker 2
How do we execute quickly? What's the best way of doing this? What's the most effective way? So being able to showcase your thought leadership not only gives you gravitas, it gives your department gravitas, and it gives the brand teams gravitas as well. So it's win win for everybody.

00;20;09;04 - 00;20;29;12
Speaker 1
Slipping a little bit over to your recent mentorship or your mentoring work, I should say, have you learned anything But yeah, talk to me, I guess, about that experience. So I know that you're involved in wire now. How have you enjoyed being a mentor and have you learned anything lately?

00;20;29;12 - 00;20;51;11
Speaker 2
Loving it, been working with Wire now since the beginning of the year and it's just great to be able to share those experiences with other insight leaders at an earlier stage of their trajectory. To be able to be a part of that, go for missing part of their conversations. So it's a real privilege to share in their experience.

00;20;51;24 - 00;21;21;15
Speaker 2
And the other mentoring I do is for Durham University, which is my university, and they're I mentor undergraduates in their final year who are also leaders within the university framework and getting ready for the move into the working world. So that's also a privilege to share in their experiences as they finish up their academic examinations, dissertations preparation, as well as get ready for the working world.

00;21;21;15 - 00;21;44;18
Speaker 2
So I do learn a lot. I learn about the younger cohorts, what's important to them, what's relevant to them in the working world, also how they're reacting to all of the socioeconomic things happening around us, the political things we're seeing, and also getting a grasp on how they've coped with COVID and how they're dealing with the social aspects of life as well.

00;21;44;18 - 00;21;49;11
Speaker 2
So it's very informative, but it's a real privilege and a real joy.

00;21;50;04 - 00;22;05;14
Speaker 1
If we think about your mentorship with women in research, what's been the most surprising thing you've sort of realized about that sort of younger cohort of of women who are coming up in the industry?

00;22;06;01 - 00;22;43;06
Speaker 2
I think when I think back to my earliest stages in my career, that possibly wasn't so much media influence. We didn't have all the text that we have today. We didn't have all the expectations that exist today. So it was a slightly different working environment. So being able to understand the pace, the pressures that there are, and also how they wish to evolve their careers is important because it's it's slightly different to where we were 15, 20 years ago.

00;22;43;06 - 00;23;07;11
Speaker 2
But in saying that there's also lots of positives. I mean, if only we'd had the equipment that is available today, how much faster and how much slicker we would have been. So it's definitely a double edged sword and understanding that. But but also fundamentally, the desires of the human needs and the human desires are still the same. Everybody wants to do well, everybody wants to do a good job.

00;23;07;25 - 00;23;22;01
Speaker 2
Everybody wants to promote their careers. And, you know, sustain their families and do well by everyone having time for family time for work, work life balance, the same issues, but slightly different contexts.

00;23;22;21 - 00;23;49;15
Speaker 1
So cool. I'm excited for you. I know you're really, really loving the mentorship, so think she's excited to connect Connect soon and see how it's going. We've we're running out of time. We've got a few rapid fire questions that we ask each of our interviewees. So to start with the first, which is tell us about a new or novel way that you've gone about understanding a customer base or your audience recently.

00;23;50;12 - 00;24;18;02
Speaker 2
A new or novel way. I think using tech has been quite a novel way, using whiteboard in workshops. That was interesting because again, the speed at which we collected the insights was really interesting. But doing it all on the technology, was it was fun but also a bit challenging. I had to think quickly on my feet. So new for me, new for them, a new way of gathering information.

00;24;18;10 - 00;24;23;15
Speaker 1
And who do you look to when you're trying to understand where industry is going next? I guess industry being research.

00;24;23;15 - 00;24;43;20
Speaker 2
So many fantastic individuals in the market, research and insight industry. I'm really blessed to know a lot of them in my network. So I'm always following the podcasts, following the articles and just reading, reading, reading. But you know, there's truly too many to mention, and it wouldn't be fair to call any specific people out because there's so many of them.

00;24;43;28 - 00;24;47;10
Speaker 1
And if you have one tip for a researcher that's listening to this, what would it be?

00;24;47;27 - 00;24;58;23
Speaker 2
Love what you do and do it with passion and you know, it will all just develop and keep your growth in mind. So keep learning, keep being curious and keep asking questions.

00;24;59;10 - 00;25;04;09
Speaker 1
Thank you so much. Fab. If people want to connect with you, is LinkedIn the best place?

00;25;04;09 - 00;25;06;05
Speaker 2
Yeah, that's absolutely fantastic.

00;25;06;27 - 00;25;15;27
Speaker 1
Okay, well, I will chat to see and I'm sure everyone will be back for another weekly episode of Dig In, please like him. Subscribe. Thanks. Think I.

00;25;15;27 - 00;25;20;05
Speaker 2
Spy.

00;25;20;05 - 00;25;27;02
Speaker 1
Thanks for tuning in this week. Find us on LinkedIn at Dig Insights and don't forget to hit subscribe for a weekly dose of fresh content.