00;00;06;23 - 00;00;22;05
Intro
Hi. Welcome to Dig In the podcast brought to you by Dig Insights. Every week we interview founders, marketers and researchers, from innovative brands to learn how they're approaching their role and their category in a clever way.

00;00;22;08 - 00;00;41;04
Paul
Welcome back to Dig In. My name is Paul Gaudette I'm a co-founder and CEO of Dig Insights, and our guest today is an entrepreneur, an award winning communicator, a former political advisor and the founder of the Canadian charity AAP. And she's also the president and co-founder of the PR firm Pomp and Circumstance. And actually bonus track, which we'll get into.

00;00;41;09 - 00;00;46;16
Paul
Very excited to welcome Amanda Alvaro to our Dig In podcast. So welcome, Amanda.

00;00;46;19 - 00;00;48;17
Amanda
Thanks for having me. So happy to be here.

00;00;48;22 - 00;01;06;09
Paul
Well, thanks for joining me and I have to say, I don't get to do this often where I actually fit it, fill in for interviewing some of our guests. So I'm really excited about this. And I have to say also that based on the people I get to talk to, not as many people has such a diverse background as you do.

00;01;06;09 - 00;01;15;29
Paul
As I just described. I'd love to hear a little bit more about how you kind of came to where you are today, what that journey looked like, what led you to where you are.

00;01;16;02 - 00;01;44;03
Amanda
Of quite the setup. Also like it is a lot more on this now. Well, I started I actually started in political communications, so when I'm not running this agency, I also work as a political commentator for CBC on Wednesday, so I still get a little bit of that political feel. But but mostly it's PR these days. I was running political campaigns and at the end of a campaign, the advertising agency who is responsible for the campaign asked if I would consider starting a PR firm.

00;01;44;06 - 00;02;03;23
Amanda
This was going back a number of years, so I started our first PR firm with my still partner, Lindsay Mattick. We ran that for several years and after doing that under the umbrella of an advertising agency which is still very much a part of our DNA and we'll probably talk about this quite a bit today about how creativity is at the core of what we do.

00;02;03;26 - 00;02;19;07
Amanda
We thought, think we can do this on our own. So we took off, the offshoot became pomp and circumstance. PR We started it seven years ago and since then we've added bonus track and postcard to our roster. But it actually all began in politics.

00;02;19;10 - 00;02;28;13
Paul
Interesting. Okay, so now you've just set up you have three companies now that it sounds like. So tell me a little bit the difference between pomp and circumstance, bonus track and postcard.

00;02;28;15 - 00;02;51;07
Amanda
So okay, so things pomp and circumstance is started out as a more traditional PR firm. So under it we do earned media relations, experiential events. We do a lot of influencer marketing. We start a bonus track just over a year ago and that became more of our digital social offshoot. We we do a lot of design brand work under that.

00;02;51;13 - 00;02;55;22
Amanda
And pomp postcard is, is kind of our love to wanderlust and travel.

00;02;55;22 - 00;02;58;14
Paul
So it's just a.

00;02;58;17 - 00;03;18;15
Amanda
Nice way to add the things that you love in under your business umbrella. Lindsay and I love to travel and we thought, you know, a lot of people would come to us and in our travels, mostly for often for client work, and they would say, you know, give us your best recommendation for X location. And we thought, let's start bundling that under pomp postcard.

00;03;18;15 - 00;03;25;14
Amanda
And so that's what that is. It's these like three day itineraries for the most coveted spots in the world.

00;03;25;16 - 00;03;49;02
Paul
Now, I think, first of all, congratulations on on the successes that that you've been able to achieve with you and your partner in this company. I, you know, I had the opportunity to go and research a lot of the the awards that were that you had won from pomp and circumstances and the stuff that you would be able to showcase as part of the work that you've done, Some of the stuff that I see there is so it's so amazing in terms of like especially the experience stuff.

00;03;49;05 - 00;04;10;27
Paul
It almost is a little bit different from what my, my traditional thinking of what PR actually is and maybe you could kind of speak to. Is it because you have the agency side of it as well? And that experience, it feels like what you do is it's much bigger and much more involved and much more almost like, yeah, agency in terms of advertising agency like versus what a traditional PR company might be.

00;04;11;01 - 00;04;14;24
Paul
Can tell me a bit about that difference between what you do versus traditional PR for sure.

00;04;14;24 - 00;04;34;20
Amanda
I think, you know, number of years ago PR was really known for we would be the people who would call up a journalist and you know, you'd find the brand or the spokesperson quoted in the pages of the newspaper that you were frequently reading or watching your morning show. And that's still a part of what we do. But the scope has expanded dramatically.

00;04;34;20 - 00;05;02;04
Amanda
So a lot of it is now really experience based and event based. Like Buffalo Jeans wants to talk about their 50th anniversary, and we take a huge group of influencers in media to Utah to make that happen with these beautiful backdrops or Peloton is launching in Canada. And instead of just issuing a news release, we open the peloton pad or Mercedes is launching a new vehicle and we take them out to an ice house in the middle of Gimli, Manitoba.

00;05;02;04 - 00;05;27;13
Amanda
And I think there's just unique ways of bringing brands to life. And as it becomes I may use the word the marketing speak, as it becomes more saturated, we have to find more extraordinary ways to get brands noticed. And I think that's probably our calling card is what our agency is most known for, is maybe pushing the envelope a little bit and getting clients excited about doing things are taking risks that they may have not taken before.

00;05;27;19 - 00;05;46;14
Paul
And it's so interesting that you talk about this because I think, you know, you know, even for us, we're we're more of the side of providing insights in the pulse of the consumer and understanding, helping clients understand what the consumer is interested in. You are you know, you're taking big swings at big ideas. I mean, you talk about an ice house in Gimli, Manitoba.

00;05;46;16 - 00;05;55;12
Paul
You know, how are you coming up with these, you know, innovative ideas and how are you actually able to even just sell these in to your clients?

00;05;55;14 - 00;06;17;19
Amanda
Well, I think, you know, if if brands are choosing as they're they're probably choosing as because they know that that's the type of program or campaign that we deliver. You're not going to come to pomp and circumstance if you you know, if you're looking for a relative, you know, straight of a straight line campaign, you're probably coming to us because you've heard of one of our our big ideas.

00;06;17;19 - 00;06;45;16
Amanda
And it's not just big ideas for the sake of big ideas. I think we have a good track record of making sure that we're using insight to back up some of these ideas and that might mean that we actually scrap everything that we know about PR, that we we don't even talk to journalists through a traditional press release, and instead we use exclusive influencers because we're talking to a very niche market who is influenced by the people that they follow and care about and covet.

00;06;45;18 - 00;07;10;05
Amanda
So, you know, I think that PR has changed. It's evolved. There's more paid than there ever was before. It's not as earned as it used to be, but really from PR to air to air, we're also borrowing from trends that are happening globally and we're bringing some of that back to our clients. And I think the last thing I would say is, you know, we we often every Tuesday we get together as an agency.

00;07;10;08 - 00;07;36;13
Amanda
And the way that we start our day together is we look at the trends. So people are putting together their favorite campaigns that are happening around the world or market leading campaigns or trends. And we're all looking at it as an agency and we're saying, what can we borrow from this? You know, this festival is happening in Palm Springs or this unique this brand took a unique approach to eye.

00;07;36;14 - 00;07;45;01
Amanda
How can we use some of that? And I think because we have that global perspective and we're prepared to take some of those big swings, our campaigns are getting noticed.

00;07;45;05 - 00;08;06;05
Paul
That's amazing. The fact that you and we we just had actually a conversation with Joe Lapera, who is the lead of foresight at McDonald's, talking about trends across the different different regions and trying to figure out what's the leading indicator on some of these things when you're when you're thinking about what's going on globally and you're looking at trends, how do you have the access?

00;08;06;05 - 00;08;13;04
Paul
Do you have to get at that information? How are you how is your team bringing that together? What are they what sources are they relying on?

00;08;13;07 - 00;08;33;17
Amanda
Well, listen, I mean, it's so easy, as you know, to access information globally now. Right? So part of it is being totally tapped in and connected, knowing what's happening and who's talking about what and where, and bringing that to the agency. And, you know, people have different interests. Some of our some of the people who work for us are very focused on the fashion and beauty industry.

00;08;33;19 - 00;09;07;24
Amanda
Some are very focused more corporately on clients that are like like eBay or skip the dishes and food and fads. So those individual roles are all kind of watching that industry, but not just like in our small regional or local landscape. They're looking at what's happening in Italy, what's happening in Australia, what's happening in Asia, and kind of bringing the best to the best and the benefit of having, you know, people who are incredibly tapped in and connected is that, you know, we're borrowing from their networks and they're bringing in and they're sharing it with the rest of the team.

00;09;08;00 - 00;09;25;01
Amanda
And then we create our own trend report and we deliver that to our clients as well so that we're not just, you know, it's not just about housing and keeping all the secrets to ourselves. We're happy to celebrate what the industry is doing. We're proud of our own work, but we're not navel gazing right where we're looking at what's happening around the globe.

00;09;25;01 - 00;09;32;06
Amanda
And we're saying to our clients, You like this? We're kind of interested in this too. Maybe we can. Maybe we can bring it together and take a unique spin on off.

00;09;32;09 - 00;09;59;09
Paul
Now. So if you looking at trends and stuff that other agencies are doing or other companies are doing globally and you're kind of taking some of those ideas, how do you know, you know, what would work in our market or this market or whatever market you're working in? How do you kind of how do you how do you balance the idea of having the pulse of the consumer with the idea of doing something that's a little bit out there that might be beyond what the consumer is even thinking about or looking for wanting?

00;09;59;12 - 00;10;22;12
Amanda
Yeah, that's a good question. I think with that comes our experience in running agencies for 15 years and knowing what's what works and and having that track record and, and also having a really deep and important relationship with our clients. So there are some clients who are really willing to push the envelope and they're like, you know that box, you can run way outside that box.

00;10;22;15 - 00;10;39;21
Amanda
And there's some that have parameters that require them to stick closer to those boundaries, and that's fine too. So it is about finding the sweet spot some time in the balance of really wanting to push ourselves creatively, but making sure that everything that we're delivering actually works.

00;10;39;24 - 00;11;04;23
Paul
This, you know, the idea of politics is something that also is very interesting, especially in the work that you do, and just thinking about like how the stuff that you do for brands and how you're trying to create something that's totally beyond what the maybe normal perception of a brand is for a consumer. I look at, you know, what you do with Peroni as well as a great example of how you had the pasta day.

00;11;04;26 - 00;11;29;08
Paul
You know, having all the chefs together prepare like customized dishes paired with pepperoni as a way of just really celebrating the whole day itself. How does that you know, is there a is there a link between what you can do for brands and what maybe, you know, even politicians need to think about doing, even just as for themselves in terms of creating their own brand or anybody who's really creating a personal brand.

00;11;29;08 - 00;11;36;10
Paul
How does someone take what you've done from the corporate perspective and translate that into how you would maybe do something for your own personal brand?

00;11;36;12 - 00;12;00;08
Amanda
Well, it's funny that you mention partnerships like Peroni, because that has been a big trend in PR as well. So our borrowing cachet from from like minded brands or individuals who look at a brand and say, Yeah, you got me because you partnered with another brand that I really love or I really watch or I really follow. So we're doing more of that than ever before.

00;12;00;11 - 00;12;24;21
Amanda
And, you know, skip the dishes. Last year we did a Katy Perry inspired like Cherry Picnic in the Park and a drag brunch. And it's like you're you're playing with and borrowing from the zeitgeist as well. What are what are we talking about what's what's newsworthy and novel right now and how do we bring it into our campaigns as far as brands are concerned or personal brands are concerned?

00;12;24;23 - 00;12;51;20
Amanda
You know, there's a lot of authenticity that goes into it, too. And that goes back to what I said earlier. It's not just about being bold for the sake of being bold. The best brands are rooted in their core values, and those show up all the time. So before we ever get too creative, we're doing a deep dive on strategy where we're doing an audit on what these brands stand for, what they really value, and making sure that all of that comes to the forefront.

00;12;51;26 - 00;12;54;22
Amanda
But trying to do it more creatively than others are doing it.

00;12;54;24 - 00;13;16;09
Paul
Interesting and very interesting. I like that. I like the idea of you're going in, you're really researching what the brand is all about first, and then come out with the creative ideas that would help to really inspire new consumers are really elevate the brand's position by leveraging those values. And I think that's something that maybe gets lost with in translation with a lot of maybe some other stuff that we've seen.

00;13;16;09 - 00;13;41;14
Paul
So it's really it's really quite, quite unique. If I had, you know, you have yet to go back. You know, you've done like a ton of work for a ton of different clients. And so if we just pick like one thing, maybe an experiential campaign that you ran or that you did or you immersed the consumers into or whatever it is, what's the you know, if you look back, what some of those ones that you use that really stand out as being, wow, we really we really headed out of the park there.

00;13;41;16 - 00;13;51;16
Amanda
I mean, there's so many but there's I mentioned one of them, which was, you know, last year, you take a brand like Buffalo Jeans that has been around for a long time.

00;13;51;22 - 00;13;52;23
Paul
Oh, I remember.

00;13;52;26 - 00;14;33;09
Amanda
Yeah. Well, and you're celebrating your 50 year anniversary. It's you know, it's incredible moment. So how do you bring that to life again? How do you make it fresh? How do you get an entirely new generation to care about it? It's not enough just to put out a press release and say we turned 50, celebrate us. So to choose, we we played off of this idea of bandwagon which was so popular last year, and we took influencers to this beautiful scenic content, Rich and Ready Vista in Utah, and we said, Have at it.

00;14;33;11 - 00;14;55;28
Amanda
And a lot of what we do right now is about creating content with creators who have a vision, who knows what works with their audience. So they'll say it was. And if we're working collaboratively together, which we do, they'll say to us, This is going to resonate. Let's create this shoot, let's make this magic happen. So we give them the tools and they really make the material.

00;14;55;28 - 00;15;19;11
Amanda
I'm proud that we're delivering that as an agency because I think that, you know, gone are the days where you just set up a launch event and it's a one and done now for longevity out of these moments as well. So even in Gimli, Manitoba, where we worked with a number of creative agencies for Mercedes-Benz, it wasn't just about bringing media and influencers to an Icehouse.

00;15;19;18 - 00;15;41;21
Amanda
Mercedes had the foresight to think we could also shoot an ad there. We could also shoot content there. So we're going to stretch those dollars and use this like remarkable moment that we're creating for media influencers and we're going to make sure that it's like going all the way down the marketing funnel, which you know that that's how marketers are considering their limited budgets.

00;15;41;21 - 00;15;44;21
Amanda
Now let's make sure that every dollar counts.

00;15;44;24 - 00;16;02;17
Paul
And so how are you how is it going back? Because I know even with a lot of, you know, advertising agencies, people can say that, you know, they spend money on advertising. They never know if it works. Of course it works. But they you know, how do you actually quantify how are you looking at some of the stuff that you're doing and measuring what's success look like for you and maybe for your clients, too?

00;16;02;19 - 00;16;27;01
Amanda
Yeah, And there's I mean, there are different obviously different metrics, just like any aspect of marketing. You know, some brands are really looking for engagement through creators that we're working with. Some are looking for us to funnel those who are viewing the campaign directly into a website or a contest or, you know, a destination. Skip the Dishes is obviously an online platform.

00;16;27;01 - 00;16;39;09
Amanda
eBay is an online platform. They want people there and use the platform. So when we launch a campaign, we want to see those metrics. And and we're seeing that with PR. PR used to be just about impressions.

00;16;39;11 - 00;16;40;03
Paul
Right.

00;16;40;06 - 00;17;04;16
Amanda
I got you in the Globe and Mail. Right. 3 million impressions. Check. Yeah. And now it's it's it's about that. But it's about so much more than that. You know, Sporting life came to us and they were doing a back to school partnership and we created this enormous life size shoebox for them, Adidas shoe box. And we had creators climbing all over it and creating content.

00;17;04;16 - 00;17;31;22
Amanda
And we could have put out a press release about sporting life and and back to school. And we could have encouraged moms to get the backpacks at sporting life. But because we use creators in this imaginative way, we ended up reaching all of these people through our social extension. So we created something and then it amplified. And that's, I think, what people are looking for PR to do for them.

00;17;31;24 - 00;18;00;18
Paul
I have two, two questions and they're not really connected, so they're just two questions come to mind as you're as I'm hearing it, of all these things that you're the amazing work that you guys are doing. Before you mention it, you can definitely lean on some past experiences. Clients are coming to you. They've seen your work, so they've been able to actually, you know, see what you're able to do, how much of the stuff that you're doing is things like clients have seen some stuff before and they're coming to you versus you may be going and pitching to net new clients who may not have seen that.

00;18;00;18 - 00;18;14;08
Paul
And how do you it's easier to kind of rely on some of the past work that you've done to say here, this is what, you know, clients have come in and said, I've seen this before. I saw what you did with Palatine or I'm really excited to do something with you versus maybe net new. How are you pitching new work?

00;18;14;08 - 00;18;18;08
Paul
How are you getting them to think about your bold new ideas?

00;18;18;10 - 00;18;36;00
Amanda
Well, the one of the main reasons why Lindsay and I started the agency and we say this all the time is because we didn't want to regurgitate old ideas that wasn't interesting to us. It wasn't exciting. Listen, there's a time and a place where something that really works, works, and we don't have to reinvent the wheel over and over again.

00;18;36;03 - 00;18;55;17
Amanda
But creatively we do. Creatively, we have to push ourselves. And I think that if you're a marketer and you're working with an agency and you're getting the same tired ideas over and over again, that's a problem. I mean, if I was a marketer, I would want that, especially in this landscape, when we are bombarded with creativity every day.

00;18;55;19 - 00;19;16;08
Amanda
Do you have to find new and inventive ways? But they have to be grounded in strategic insights, right? We have to know that these you know, you either are very aware and you run an insights company. So I don't have to tell you, you have to know what is going to make your consumer tech and how am I creatively tapping into that.

00;19;16;14 - 00;19;38;26
Amanda
Right. And I think that, you know, we have a we have a big creative team who is, you know, in my opinion, they're the best in the business. So, of course, you know, I feel that way. But they are they are definitely not. They they never feel like they've they've hit it all the way. They always feel like there's an inch left.

00;19;38;28 - 00;19;52;08
Amanda
And I'm proud of that because I'm like, I want them to go for that extra bit every time. And that's those are the moments where our clients say, you know, they shake their head and they say, Wow, like you, you did something that we weren't expecting and it paid off.

00;19;52;10 - 00;20;11;18
Paul
Yeah, I appreciate that. I think, you know, and we're, you know, even with this stuff that we're providing back to our clients, I think sometimes we provide recommendations that are you got to try to hit it out of the park type of recommendations. So you got to you got to you know, you got to go for it because at least you're showing your thinking, your creativity, your strategic abilities.

00;20;11;20 - 00;20;42;04
Paul
And often times people just, you know, especially in our industry, to state the facts as opposed to saying, well, what do you do with this? How do you really elevate your brand? How do you actually go that extra mile or that extra? And so I appreciate that. And your full team. The other question I had was you've mentioned it a lot, and I'm really curious about maybe how, you know, we talked about at the beginning how PR has actually changed a lot and now you have all the influencers, not just in terms of reaching out, but also bringing them to these events and having them be a distribution of your content or the stuff that

00;20;42;04 - 00;20;53;17
Paul
you're providing. How much of it has influenced has really changed what you do? How important are they for you and for your business and really for a brand to consider right now?

00;20;53;19 - 00;20;58;06
Amanda
I would say dramatically changed our entire industry.

00;20;58;09 - 00;20;59;05
Paul
Really?

00;20;59;07 - 00;21;31;27
Amanda
Absolutely. Because when again, when we think of the channels, the channels used to be so narrow, we would be reaching people through print, through magazine, newspaper and through broadcast, through radio and television. And now we're reaching through podcasts, through social, through Tik-tok, through Instagram, through. And, you know, PR at its core is word of mouth. So it's about I heard this from somebody or my favorite trusted reporter wrote this about this brand.

00;21;31;27 - 00;21;54;03
Amanda
And so I care about it and I believe them now are, you know, our frame of reference is so much larger. So it's like this person that I follow who I find to be credible, who I trust, is giving me a recommendation about a product. And I think, you know, in some ways we've also changed what influencer means sometimes is just influential people.

00;21;54;03 - 00;22;09;23
Amanda
Sometimes it's trendsetters, sometimes it's, you know, leaders in our community. Sometimes they're micro influencers, but they've really, you know, they really have a strong, loyal following. So I think that that definition is constantly changing as well.

00;22;09;28 - 00;22;32;15
Paul
Yeah, that's I mean, it just seems like there's when you think about getting a pulse of a consumer, you think about the trends that are happening in this. The influencer community is really the thing that I think a lot of people are turning to, to understand what's happening or what will happen or how consumers will react. And it's it's a very just it just feels like a big shift from what it was maybe even just ten years ago to where it is today.

00;22;32;15 - 00;22;56;26
Paul
And I can't see it stopping any time soon. I think just the impact of and we'll just have so much more. Yeah, such a bigger impact as we continue along that journey of so everything going as social, you know, I think, you know, you guys, you and your partner have been very successful and obviously, you know, this is not your first in that you've done this and you know, you ran a decade at another agency for over a decade.

00;22;56;28 - 00;23;17;28
Paul
Even like you said, you are in politics in terms of it being an advisor, former advisor before you're on TV, said once a week that every Wednesday, I think you said on CBC, you know, I think you have a unique ability. I think this is your background, communications is your background that you've been able to actually talk to people and and help help sell you and your ideas.

00;23;17;28 - 00;23;40;28
Paul
And for those who, you know, think about advice for those who want to take a risk in PR and marketing, how do you try to convince those stakeholders to take that risk? How do you actually how do you actually, you know, how do you help them understand what it is they should do and how help them actually take that risk is very and especially Canadians.

00;23;40;28 - 00;23;50;12
Paul
Our nature is not risk taking. So for for them to be able to do it, how are you leveraging your communication skills to really help them take that like?

00;23;50;14 - 00;24;20;24
Amanda
Well, I think, you know, I think there's a few things. I think and we've talked about this a little bit, this idea that we're not presenting creative for the sake of creative. It has to be grounded in insights. It has to be grounded in a strategic framework that is built in collaboration with the clients. So we're starting from a place where we both agree that this is the jumping off point, how we express that creatively that comes down to, I believe in many cases, most clients are looking for that.

00;24;20;24 - 00;24;44;27
Amanda
They want they want their brand to creatively resonate. They want their brands to stand out. They're looking for new and novel and fresh ways to be noticed. So it's not such a leap. I think there's an example where simply financial, who's a client, you know, and there are financial institutions, We said to them, there's a trend around side hustle, right?

00;24;44;27 - 00;25;08;27
Amanda
Like the great resignation and side hustles. What if we feature a few remarkable side hustlers, women in interesting industries? Let us connect to them. Let's hear about their side hustles. Let's showcase that under the simply umbrella that was pretty normal for them. You know, it was it was an interesting way in it was an interesting way to invite Canadians to explore simply.

00;25;09;04 - 00;25;31;10
Amanda
But it was deeply grounded in insights around consumer behavior. What people are doing today, the times that we're in coming out of COVID. And I think that, you know, when you're working with an agency, you want to make sure that that agency is considering those factors. It's great to come up with awesome creative, like all day long, and I'm not there yet, so I can say it all in.

00;25;31;17 - 00;25;42;06
Amanda
I love your creative ideas, but I want to know and I want to know if I was on the receiving end that it came from a place that's deeply strategic.

00;25;42;08 - 00;25;57;02
Paul
That's yeah, that's fantastic. You know, I think about the journey that we've been on and, you know, everyone asks us what, you know, what does the next five years look like for you? And I get tired of answering it, but I'm going to ask you, I mean, what does the next few years look like for you for pomp and circumstance?

00;25;57;02 - 00;26;02;00
Paul
What do you what do you see as being the evolution, the next phase in that in the journey here?

00;26;02;03 - 00;26;32;04
Amanda
Well, I remember when I first got into PR and I was reading that bill Gates had famously said, if I had one last dollar to spend, I'd spend it on PR. And I thought, we're in the right industry. And the industry has grown significantly substantially since then. Throughout the pandemic, when marketing production, budgets, advertising production budgets were shut down, marketers turned to to PR and they saw that return on their investment.

00;26;32;04 - 00;26;52;07
Amanda
They saw that they could reach a broad swath of Canadians or North Americans, depending on who they were trying to reach. And they could do it without the infrastructure of a major production budget. And so I think I see nothing but new avenues for PR in the paid media space, in the digital space, and the social space for pomp.

00;26;52;07 - 00;27;00;27
Amanda
It's about growth. It's about growth and it's about, you know, heading into exploring and becoming even more seasoned in all of those channels.

00;27;01;00 - 00;27;18;17
Paul
And that's truly amazing. Thank you, Amanda, so much for this conversation. It's truly insightful, especially teaching me more about what even PR is today. I just sincere. Thanks for joining us today, everybody. Amanda, all of our own president and co-founder of Pomp and Circumstance. Please check it out. Thanks again.

00;27;18;25 - 00;27;19;23
Amanda
Thanks for having me.